at May 19, 2005 12:58 PMJane Galt at Asymmetrical Information has a very good post that argues how arranged marriages are a lot more complex than the Western view of them, and might actually be better for the Arab world as it is structured, at Can the West Seduce the Arab World with Our Dating Culture?.
She makes plenty of good points, but her biggest argument is that arranged marriages are neccessary and work mainly because of economic reasons. I lived for a long time in a country where arranged marriages are the norm, but we are neither Arab nor Muslim. 80% of the marriages I have seen were arranged - my marriage was technically a "love marriage", since my husband and I had dated before our marriage (secretly, of course, but that is the story for another day), and we spoke to our parents once we were of age, and from then on, it was pretty much an arranged marriage. My best friend (I hope she doesn't mind my dragging her life into my blog) had an arranged marriage.
This was to say that we really had no economic reasons to have an arranged marriage - I am a software engineer, and she was a doctor. We did not depend on anybody for our living. Basically, I feel that arranged marriages take the pressure of the dating scene out of a girl's life. I am not against dating or choosong your spouse yourself, mind you. What I find convenient about arranged marriages is that they take most of the guessing work out of the dating game. My parents tried to set me up with a few guys before they knew I was going out with my husband, and some of them I could have married and spent my life with, if I was already not in love.
The difference between your parents finding a boy/girl for you and you finding them yourselves, is that, your parents have already done the background checks - they know about the potential spouse's family, education, job, reputaion, pretty much everything that one needs to work hard at finding out when they are dating. Parents usually have the child's best interests at heart, plus they look at the potentials with an objective eye, instead of the starry-eyed views of some people who cannot see beyond some one's appearance, or some such. Also, objective parents might be better at judging a couple's compatibility than the couple themselves, who might be blindly in love now, but might realize the problem when it is too late.
Another plus point about the arranged marriages is that the parents and families of both sides have invested so much of themselves into the marriage along with the couple that they form an invaluable support group, and try to keep couple together (not good in some cases) and help them be a good family. All this does not neccessarily mean arranged marriages are better than dating and finding a spouse for yourself - It is just to say there is a lot more to it than plain economic reasons.
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My parents are trying hard to “arrange” my marriage.
Arrange marriages don’t succeed only due to economic reasons: how else will a girl find a guy?
It succeeds because of biology more then economics!
There is no alterante route. Girls giggle and tease each other about “would-be husbands” when they read matrimonials in newspapers.
I know, because I have done so myself.
It’s a stiff competition for Match.com, but the Indian version of Match, Friendster etc. seem to challenge Chanda Aunty, the matchmaker, who knows has a kitty party friend with a son studying in Americna. Tulane University I think. Or maybe Tufts. Interested, beta?
Posted by: Shareen at November 23, 2004 4:33 AM
Americans when they marry are in love and hope everything else falls in place eventually.
Indians when they marry have everything else in place and hope they fall in love eventually.
Posted by: Al Mujahid at November 23, 2004 6:32 AM
arrange marriages are shyte and thereason for that it they are a load of fuss over nothing why dosent everyone jut shut up and get on with what they are doing
Posted by: saima at December 6, 2004 10:54 AM
Here I am a non-Indian guy who is in a loving relationship with a beautiful intelligent Indian girl. She is the daughter of a Hindu priest and has been groomed her entire life to be someone’s wife. Our relationship consists mainly of hours and hours talking on the phone at night when her parents think that she is asleep. We see each other at work for a few moments every few days. We have managed to find 4 or 5 hours a week to be together in person mainly out of our area because to be seen together would be the end for her. Her parents have denied her the opportunity to become a US citizen so that they can threaten her with deportation to India if ever something like what is happening with me was discovered. We both believe strongly against premarital sex and have not gone down that road, so the typical arguments against a purely sexually motivated love relationship are not valid (although it disgusts me to think of her giving that gift to a stranger instead of to each other). We have been together long enough to know that we do not want to be with any other person. In spite of all of this she is so close to her family. With her father in such a public position there is no way that he would ever accept her choosing her own husband. Never would he accept a non-Hindu and definitely not a non-Indian. We dream of being together and having a life full of love and family, but it seems as if this is not to be. So she is faced with a horrible choice: her family or me. To choose her family means a life married to a man that she does not know or love, knowing all the time that the man she does is still waiting for her. To choose me is to alienate herself from her family, but if the choice was us not a day would go by that I would not pursue a relationship with them. In a thought that is completely not Indian, I hope beyond hope that if they truly love her they will accept us and keep her. She is so giving and self sacrificing that she will likely give up all that matters to her in our relationship to follow the wishes of her parents, who coincidentally will not have to be forced into a marriage with a stranger, be forced to give themselves to this stranger physically, mentally and emotionally, to be forced to have children that will be raised in a family where their mother has sacrificed her independence, her ambitions and her emotions to please parents that are not willing to change their ways to see their daughter happy with the person that she loves. I am trying to understand, and I am living each day trying to express my love to her in a way that will make it possible that there will be a choice and that she can choose us. Arraigned marriage, forced pairing, does affect people negatively by taking away all the freedom and choice that makes us different from plants. It subjects a girl to a life that is not hers, will rob me of the only person in the world that I have ever or will ever love, will rob her future husband of the gift of her entire heart, will rob her parents of ever having a relationship with their daughter where she does not secretly or overtly resent the decision that they have made for her, will keep her children from knowing the joy of being raised by parents that model the ultimate picture of devotion and love. So tell me that this is right and I will never believe for a moment that that is the truth.
Posted by: Michael at December 23, 2004 11:33 PM
i am wed threw arranged marriage. it fun. i like it. she pretty and we happy together. already been 4 year and 5 kid. we have happy family. i know sometime she work late with her boss and do not come home but i love her. she is very good smell nice her bossman very nice to. he tak her out sometime when i busy at work. arrange marriage is good.
Posted by: Rajinderpreet at January 8, 2005 8:30 PM
i do not agree with arranged marriages, my parents didnt have a arranged mariage, making it a love marriage, the reason being was that my father was hindu and my mother was or is bengali muslim, and my grandparents were against this, even though they went through with it and eventually were disowned by their families, the trouble that my mum went through as i was growing up along with my litlle brother and sister was discusting the way my fathers family looked at my mum wasnt too nice and they tended to speak behind her and my fathers back, this happend with my grandparents on my mums side but wasnt too bad as over time both families started to accept the fact that my mum had married a hindu and dad had married a muslim, when people used to say that the relationship wasnt going to last my parents sure proved them wrong, and they have been together now for around 16 years.
There was a number of times that my dads parents would try and get my father to leave my mother even though she had children and my dad obviously refused. For gods sake iti s the 21st century and people need 2 get a grip about this and move on, it thruthfully makes me sick and no matter what colour, race or nething you are lol it doesnt matter, i think arranged marriages specially the ones where the girl doesnt even get to see the boy is discusting and out of order A women should have the right to marry who she loves and not the ones that her parents choose for her sometimes yes the arrangd marriage can work but this is when the girl and boy are seeing each other for a bit and i have seen some that do but in some other cases they do not and the girl especially tends to rebel against it.
I am 15 turning 16 and am british asian and dont really follow a particular religion but follow many different ones. i really see myslef as being more british as my parents havent really raised me in a asian atmosphere, i cant even speak my native tongue lol how funni, but its gets me a round so when i grow up i will be an independant british asian women or at the moement teen lolz or gal if some would like to put it like that. parents who sent their children back to their native country need to really get a life, as it is blaintenly obvious that the parents do not love their child and are being very selfish.
{To micheal, everything you said is right about the parents not thinking about her, and i feel especially sorry for you both your girlfriend is being put in such a tough position and i so feel sorry for her. i really hope that the love you 2 have does succeed and her parents really do see through all the other differences eg colour and religion.} if you thruly do love her and she truly does love you you may have to talk it through, i dont know if at the moent its a right time to talk to her father becuase the last thing that he wants is his daughter running away, with a guy that he may feel didnt have the guts to face up to him and be a man. I truely hope everything works out and if you want, keep me posted on things}
Posted by: no1desi-dancer {aight} at January 20, 2005 8:34 AM
Arranged marriages sucks!!!: mad:
Posted by: a at February 13, 2005 4:55 PM
Rajenderpret:she is very good smell nice her bossman very nice to. he tak her out sometime when i busy at work.
dude I am confused!!!
“she is very good smell nice her bossman very nice to” What!!!
Posted by: Amit Churi at February 14, 2005 4:20 AM
:tongue3: hi i love you work good job and remember i am going to get married injuly 16, 2005
and of crause it is arrenged marriages and i love it
Posted by: najma at February 17, 2005 10:17 AM
This posting is especially for Michael. I, too am non-Indian and dated and lived with an Indian for four years. I always knew that he could not marry me for he was a Brahmin and that his parents would be dead set against a marriage with a non-Indian and non-Hindu. Going against my better judgement, I pursued the relationship. Why? Because I loved him, truly, madly and deeply. I felt that knowing and being with him even for the shortest amount of time is better than not being with him at all. I knew that the time for us to part would come—but I hoped and prayed that his parents would have a change of heart and see past the constraints of tradition and culture and would see that we really did love each other. Well, that never happened. When he told his parents about me, he was immediately paired up with a girl from home. They were engaged and recently just got married. I was devastated and so was he. I did not know how to pick up the pieces and did not know how to start my life without him. He was my best friend, my lover, my confidante and my soul mate. But I had to say goodbye to him. He wrote me before he got married and said that eventhough he wasnt with me physically, it is I whom he would always want to be with. I recently got an email from him right after his wedding to the girl. He is conflicted—-torn between tradition and love. He is a good son and a good man and would want to love his wife for the right reasons, but his feelings for me are getting in the way. Everyday he compares his life with her to a “supposed” life with me. What kind of a life is that? I feel that all three of us (me, him and his wife) have been robbed of a life of love, freedom and self-determination. There is no winner in this situation, perhaps only his parents who were able to uphold their sacred tradition and maintain their so-called status in the Indian community. But what a price to pay. And it is the three of us who will end up paying it. I hope that you and your girlfriend will triumph over this aged-old tradition (arranged marriages). To be honest with you, I have seen more pain than joy in these types of arrangements. I hope things will work out for you.
Jess
Posted by: jessica at February 23, 2005 11:45 AM
Hi, I’m a normal white girl and I date an indian guy. I met him over a year ago and he wouldn’t leave me alone. He knew that I dated another indian and broke up with him because of the whole parent thing. He reassured me that our relationship would be different. Well, it’s not. He told his parents about me year ago. But not directly. He was with them and was talking to me on the phone when his mom barged in and asked who he was talking to, and when he said his girlfriend, she asked, when am I going to meet her and what is her name. To find out if I was indian. Well, apparently they weren’t too happy with the news. I year later, he was to talk with them about setting up a time to come meet me. They keep putting it off. He called them to try to set up a time, but his mother was crying and said that he doesn’t call her enough—even though it’s every couple of days that he does. She told him that he’s changing and that she doesn’t like it and was so upset with him she didn’t want to talk to him anymore. I find this strange and bizarre behavior coming from an adult. And especially a parent of a 28 year old man. I mentioned to him that if my parents wanted me to call them more that they actually wouldn’t alienate me when I DID call them. When he got off the phone with them, he was cross to me. I asked him if he thought it was my fault and he did say that it is kind of my fault. This is crazy because I talk to my family almost every day. And in front of him. He can’t seem to bring himself to talk to them in front of me. Weird. Anyway, so the next day, I said, call your mom, make sure she is ok and make amends. He did, then he came over to my place and said he was seriously doubting our relationship. His parents are manipulating him through guilt and some weird control dynamic thing is going on. I love him, but what the hell is going on? Since that time, we are back on track, but he has not mentioned his parents again and I’m not allowed to bring it up. What is wrong with them and this situation? Can someone please help me? What should I do? Should I get out before I get hurt?
Posted by: whitegirl at March 1, 2005 10:33 AM
For all these girls posting sob stories here, my advice is this - if you meet a first-generating Indian guy, run away eral fast! 90% of them are only enamored with the idea of sleeping with a white girl and wouldn’t marry you even if they had the option. Sad, but true!
Posted by: Shanti at March 1, 2005 10:35 AM
Shanti, I resent that post. I personally know 3 first-generation Indian guys who fell in love with and married white girls. In two cases, the families were approving, and in the third case, the guy went against his parents’ wishes. They camer around eventually.
And while you may defend what you said about “Indian” guys and “white” girls, think of this statement -
90% of first generation Indian guys are only enamoured with the idea of sleeping with a white girl and would not marry you even if they had an option.
Rings true doesn’t it? ;)
What you label first generation Indians with is actually a universal male phenomenon.
Whoa….talk about hasty generalisations.:tongue3:
Posted by: Gaurav at March 2, 2005 7:23 AM
Hey, all HTML tags don’t work. I meant to strike out some words there, but didn’t work. Anyway, re-posting -
Shanti, I resent that post. I personally know 3 first-generation Indian guys who fell in love with and married white girls. In two cases, the families were approving, and in the third case, the guy went against his parents’ wishes. They camer around eventually.
And while you may defend what you said about “Indian” guys and “white” girls, think of this statement -
90% of guys are only enamoured with the idea of sleeping with a girl and would not marry you even if they had an option.
Rings true doesn’t it? ;)
What you label first generation Indians with is actually a universal male phenomenon.
Whoa….talk about hasty generalisations.:tongue3:
Posted by: Gaurav at March 2, 2005 7:25 AM
Gaurav, I do agree I was generalizing a bit. I know an Indian guy married to a French woman :) Most of those I have met though, are just so uncomfortable around any sort of women that I wonder why they seek out the white girls.
Posted by: Shanti at March 2, 2005 9:02 AM
So, what are you saying, Shanti? That because I’m caucasian that I’m different from any other living, breathing female on this planet?
I also resent what you said. I am a very successful software engineer with my masters under my belt and soon to be starting my PhD. I am an attractive girl, with a very nice physique. I have always taken care of myself and have been a vegetarian for almost 11 years. Not to toot my own horn, but I am fun, energetic, inventive, and I love life and joyously live every day. I appreciate everything around me and work really hard for everything I have and become. I look to the future with a positive outlook and try to see the best in everything. I treat those around me with the utmost respect, no matter who you are.
Then, there are idiots like you that make me want to vomit because of your lack of respect for others. Who is just a person, probably someone like you—looking for someone to spend the rest of their lives with, to be happy, and to have a family.
And, I really beg your pardon, but you are generalizing that all indian men want from white women is to sleep with them to “satisfy” their dream?
I find that pretty pathetic……because my indian co-workers and guy friends are not at all what you mentioned. Some have white girlfriends, and some have other girlfriends, not indian. It just shows how pinheaded you are.
I’m sorry, but it’s 2005. Women make tons of money. There is no need to put up with callous, ungrateful men like your kind.
So, unless you are taller than me (5’6”-5’9” seems the standard for most indian men), you better hope that you can charm the pants off of anything you can get your hands on, UNLESS you can count on an arranged marriage….
Because that is all YOU’LL end up with. And I hope she is a real winner, just like yourself.
Posted by: whitegirl at March 2, 2005 8:20 PM
Whitegirl, you do realize I am a woman, right? I am not trying to insult you in any manner. I am telling you what I do know of a lot of Indian men. If that doesn’t fit into your worldview, too bad. I am just trying to save you some heartache, that’s all!
Posted by: Shanti at March 2, 2005 8:28 PM
Get over yourself.
If it doesn’t work out with my boyfriend, no big deal. After all, he was the one begging to go out with me anyway, not the other way around. I was just trying to figure things out for myself and thought posting would give me some advice to be patient instead of throwing in the towel. But basically, you are telling me to throw in the towel….
Wow, what a positive outlook you have. You must have guys beating down your door.
And for the 90% of indian guys you know, I think you better check your sample, because 7 out of 10 of my guy friends & co-workers have no desire to date an indian woman. And they are first generation AND very well educated.
Posted by: whitegirl at March 2, 2005 8:45 PM
Looks like you are the one who needs to get over yourself. I have been married for 6 years now and have been around more Indian guys than you can dream about. Tell me how many Indian guys you know who are actually married to someone non-Indian. You know, you are the one who was asking for advice, if you don’t like the advice you got go somewhere else. Don’t blame the messenger.
Posted by: Shanti at March 3, 2005 7:08 AM
I know 7 married couples that have indian counterparts, whether it be male or female. And they have beautiful children.
I do not care that you know more indians than me. This is not a competition and no, I am not out to find as many indian friends as I can—but my field is full of different types of people from ethnic backgrounds—whether it be indian, vietnamese, thai, etc. If you are living in the US, I feel sorry for you, as you don’t seem to have assimilated yourself in the culture as well as the ones that I know. Let me ask you something. How many non indian friends do you have, because you seem to be very narrowminded.
I am not blaming the messenger, but your advice is definitely harsh. But then again, you don’t sound like a very happy person anyway, so I should consider the source.
Posted by: whitegirl at March 3, 2005 11:21 AM
Let me ask you another question: Was your marriage arranged? If yes, is he someone that makes you incredibly and unconditionally happy? And if you were to hand pick your own husband, would he have been (hands-down) the man of your dreams?
Posted by: whitegirl at March 3, 2005 11:28 AM
Whitegirl, I had a love marriage and I love him to death. Isn’t it great that I keep dashing all your assumptions about me like this?
Posted by: Shanti at March 3, 2005 12:57 PM
Don’t pat yourself on the back. Clearly, you don’t keep “dashing” my assumptions, because if they were assumptions, they would not have question marks after them.
I’m guessing (get that—guessing) by your lack of response to how many non-indian friends you have—that you have none?
It’s ok to admit—you are either very cool and open to other types of people or you just don’t want to assimilate in other culture. But you should not bash and hurt those feelings of those who are a bit more openminded than yourself.
I have noticed that different minorities either go with only having friends in their own ethnic background or culture or they go with all caucasian or african american friends, because they are just confused as to where they fit in. Some have a really strong following to their culture, some don’t, because they just simply choose not to. They have been smothered in it and don’t want to have much to do with it.
My boyfriend refers to himself as a “coconut”. He has all caucasian friends.
It really cracks me up because an indian guy friend of mine gets really upset when an older indian woman at work cooks her leftovers. He says: “Why do they have to bring that stinking stuff in here and smell up the entire office?” We just sit there kind of nervously because this lady hears him all of the time.
I am not trying to outwit you like you think. I’m not here to undermine anyone—as I love debate and love to hear different sides of things. I just want to make that clear.
But you, Shanti, make it seem like there is absolutely no hope without even blinking.
It was a pretty harsh thing to post and you should be aware of yourself.
Ciao.
Posted by: whitegirl at March 3, 2005 3:27 PM
My best friends at work are, an American guy, an Australian-Vietnamese woman, an Italian American and a Pakistani woman. Diversity enough for you?
I don’t know how old you are, but I have seen enough on all sides of the issue that I am telling you right now nothing good is going to come out of your relationship. If I am wrong and you end up happy and prove me wrong, great for you. I know enough about Indians to tell that it doesn’t work that way.
If you want someone to tell you exactly what you want to hear, then you shouldn’t ask for advice. I am not patting myself on the back or anything - I am being level-headed while you are trying your best to get a rise out of me.
Posted by: Shanti at March 3, 2005 3:33 PM
Come on, Shanti, look at the original comment you posted. And I’m the one trying to get a rise out of you?
I applaud your diversity at work—we all have diversity at work—that is the great thing about being in the US. I meant, how many friends outside of work are not indian?
I have many white friends of course, because we are the majority. One of my best girlfriends is black, another is vietnamese and I also have a good indian girlfriend. Navi is one of the coolest people I know. She had an arranged marriage, but is very welcoming and wonderful to me. She thinks that everything is going to be ok. She was raised in India and her husband brought her here.
I have italian friends, scandinavian friends, thai friends, chinese friends, etc., that I hang out with on a regular basis. Can you say the same for yourself?
And you’ve been married for 6 years? How are your children?
How are you going to feel when your son grows up to be in love with a face like Heidi Klum? Halle Berre? Eva Longoria? Because it’s around him. You can’t shelter him.
Are you going to tell him he can’t have what he really wants because who he loves is different from what you want him to be with?
Posted by: whitegirl at March 3, 2005 4:58 PM
Umm…whitegirl, you know what tongue-in-cheek means? If you read the exchange between me and Gaurav, you would see that.
Not that I need to prove myself to you, but I hang out all the time with my neighbors who are white Americans. My mentor and best friend from Memphis is a Quaker lady and I consider myself surrogate mom to her daughter.
If my son wants to marry someone of any color, be it even a man or a woman, I will still be completely supportive of it. The problem here is that, you fail to realize we are not discussing me or my family or my outlook. We are discussing your boyfriend and his family. Think about it - you can try to prove me a bigot, I can prove myself progressive, but none of it will achieve anything. Ultimately, your boyfriend and his family need to accept you - do you really think they will? Why haven’t they done so already?
Posted by: Shanti at March 3, 2005 9:46 PM
Ok both of you submit a list of people you hangout with, their nationalities and the time spent with each person. We will decide the rest :tongue3:
Posted by: JK at March 3, 2005 10:58 PM
hehe@list of people.
i still have to find someone fool enough to want to marry me. and my parents have been trying for about 6 months now. so stop scaring me:)
Posted by: avinash at March 3, 2005 11:27 PM
They live across the US and have never come to visit him once—even when he was in college. He simply states that when they come in the spring, I will meet them.
I am just wondering why they shut him down when he tries to tell them about me. They tell him that they don’t want to know about girlfriends, they want to know about his wife.
It hurts my feelings that these people don’t want to know about the person their son has been spending every day with for the past year and a half.
Sure, this isn’t going to be easy. He isn’t the first choice that my parents would have picked for me. And vice versa. But my parents (very German) philosophy is that if he is a good person, is nice to me, and treats me well, then that is good for them. Again, I’m sure that they would want me with a blue eyed german guy, but they are happy for me, nonetheless. They have met him a couple of times and have been very welcoming to him.
What I was looking for was some advice on how to handle this, and to see it from a different perspective. When you posted your comment, you probably kicked anyone in the stomach that wanted some friendly, helpful advice.
And no, we have never “discussed” my situation on this post. I posted my situation—asking for some advice and you posted a hurtful comment that probably will alienate anyone from posting anything about either the subject at hand or some advice on dating an indian counterpart.
What I HAVE been discussing is WHY you would post such a comment. Although you are trying to prove yourself to be a very cultured person—you have a very narrow mind when it comes to my particular situation—and everyone else that you insulted when you posted your quick and rather mean judgment. Granted, I know you are expressing what you “know” and this is a post—but you could have been a little more helpful and a little less mean about it.
Why don’t you think that my boyfriend’s family will accept me when they meet me? Please give me a really good reason why they wouldn’t…..
They have been here for 30+ years. They have white friends. He assures me everything will be fine and his friends say that his parents are really sweet people. This just isn’t the easiest thing for him to do. I am the first girlfriend that he wants his parents to meet—and actually, I am the first girlfriend.
Posted by: whitegirl at March 4, 2005 10:07 AM
JK, knowing me, the list would be a little too big to post.
Whitegirl, you are way too emotional right now. If you read my first comment again, you will see that I am being insulting towards the first-generation Indian guys - not you. If anything, I was being mean to them. You can choose to read it anyway you like. You can call me anything you want. I am speaking from experience and I will not change my answer to make you feel better.
Search this blog for other posts I have written about Indians and you will see 90% of them are not in the least interested in the American way of life. It is way too much stuff than I want to discuss right now. Take off the rose-colored glasses and think realistically for a moment. I am not making your life happen - I am just telling you there is a big chance it might not work out. If you don’t like it, leave it. I might have just been mean in my reply - you have been doing nothing but insulting me in all your tirades. I think you need a reality check here.
Posted by: Shanti at March 4, 2005 10:22 AM
Nope. Totally not emotional, just a normal person who is considerate of others and looking for some reason to stay positive in this difficult situation.
I am not the only person who misread your comment…..btw, I’m glad that you finally clarified what you meant about 15 posts ago….
Sure, I’ll take off the rose colored glasses when you stop pretending that you are so liberal in your thoughts but yet you can’t entertain the idea of an indian guy dating a non-indian girl—without telling me that 99% of those relationships fail first.
Sincerely, I am glad that I’m getting a different view on this—but in all seriousness, you are the first person who has told me just to dump him because it’s not going to work anyway—because he would never marry me even if he could. Where does that come from? Why COULDN’T he marry me in your opinion? I really want to know why.
What kind of power do the parents hold over their children? That is what I’m dying to know. Why do they place this weird, “guilt through manipulation” on their children?
How can this be good for them? I have 2 indian girlfriends who are dating white guys—and have been for about 3+ years. All the brothers and sisters know they are dating them, and even have their kids refer to them as “Uncle Brandon”, but they can’t tell the parents. This rips them apart!
Why, if they have come to America and have lived here for such a long time, can’t they understand a that their children have been raised in such a different culture?
And Shanti, you don’t have to keep answering my posts if you don’t want to….
Posted by: whitegirl at March 4, 2005 12:06 PM
Whitegirl, being liberal doesn’t mean I have to check out pragmatism at the door - you yourself mentioned that your boyfriend’s parents are against this - as far as Indian families are concerned, parents come before anybody else. It is the truth and will not go away because of what you or I think. Even if your boyfriend marries you, his parents will guilttrip and manipulate him enough to make your marriage hell. If you want to go ahead and do it, it is your life.
I seriously don’t get what you are trying to prove here. I am telling you something as I see it. If you don’t think so, then that is just great. I am not calling you any names and you should hold off on trying to make me out into something I am not just because I don’t agree with you. I lived in India for 22 years - enough time to know the people.
Posted by: Shanti at March 4, 2005 1:27 PM
I wouldn’t say that they are against it, they are just acting really weird. Do you think that they are manipulating this situation? And honestly, what do you think they are trying to do here?
Why do parents come first? Why would parents come over a significant other or a spouse? I would think that your spouse or significant other would be just as important or a little more important being that you are married to them… Or am I completely off on this, too?
Posted by: whitegirl at March 4, 2005 6:00 PM
We are brought up to be very respectful towards our parents and are a lot closer-knit family-wise than in most Western countries. Family units, especially the ones with just parents and kids are extremely tight and all kids in India are brought to consider their parents their responsibility in old age. It doesn’t matter how old the kids are - they still respect their parents’ wishes more than their spouse/significant others’ in most cases.
Posted by: Shanti at March 4, 2005 7:42 PM
For example, what if your husband really wanted you to do something, but your parents wanted you to do another—and you agreed with your husband? What would you do? Go with your gut and husband or just do what your parents say to make them happy?
BTW I like your blog. Looks like you bought your own domain and did it yourself. Good job!
Posted by: whitegirl at March 4, 2005 10:47 PM
Thanks, whitegirl - I am one of those extremely independent women with whom the only way you can get something done is by asking them not to do it. My parents didn’t want me to go to the US - one year later, I was here, and so on. I was just never a very obedient person.
Posted by: Shanti at March 5, 2005 3:07 PM
Well, the unfortunate problem is that most first-gen Indian guys themselves are half-minded about the whole thing, and quite rigidly believe in the system to break away from it.
If you really liked someone, you’d break even the odds and convince your folks - it’s not that hard and I’ve seen it happen. Most aren’t, and most choose not to.
The whole “culture” thing sets in and dudes decide to go home and get hitched to a nice homely girl. Or something like that. Bah.
Quite honestly, it’s largely so damn hypocritic that it sucks. And it’s about bloody times that these kids broke out of their cocoons and grew a spine or two.
Posted by: Karthik at March 18, 2005 4:36 AM
Karthik, you are right and that was precisely what I was trying to tell whitegirl. It is a sad reality. I have seen ultra-liberal Indians ultimately get married to people from their caste even (yep, everything has got to match) and stuff like that.
Posted by: Shanti at March 18, 2005 7:06 AM
I am a white female who has fallen in love w/ a Muslim from Pakistan.
I was not totally unaware of the implications, being very well read. I understood in theory, how very diffrent our cultures are. However, emotions ruled and I dismissed my very valid fears.
I cannot help but feel resentful and angry. He is being forced into an arranged marriage & is distraught. He is almost like a robotic stranger-sometimes cold other times very emotional. If he does not marry this stranger, he will face being disowned and losing out on a family dynasty. Because of this fucking 911 debacle, he can’t seem to get a higher paying job. He is a Dr, graduated top of his class. He is brillant, yet $ dependent on his parents. I don’t wish to be disrespectful, but I think that arranged marriges ( and that culture) is still quite primitive. I think it bizzare & almost cult like, the way the parents, religion ( most religions to be fair) keep the children “in line”. It’s one of the reasons that women are treated so poorly over there. They are treated like birth giving vessels & the men are sperm donors. It’s like dog breeding. Despite all the empty talk about “duty, family, inner qualities ” etc.. it’s really about forging $ ties and furthering the families socially. It’s hypocritical and very, very sad.
P.S- So is my spelling. Sorry.
Posted by: sabrina at April 8, 2005 1:20 PM
Hey people,
Here is my story. I am 24 and my parents stress me out EVERYDAY to get married. Well first of all I am not even ready to get married. I mean 24 is too young. And I look 17! And all Indian girls around me are getting married- arranged or not. They feel their shelf life is getting shorter or something and that just pisses me off.
It’s not that I am against the institution of marriage but I am not ready as yet. And here lies my problem- I am not attracted to Indian guy- physically and mentally. Well even if I do overlook the physical factor. I cant jibe with them mentally. I am soo much into physical fitness, sports, outdoors and travel but they are not. Most of the Indian guys are impressed that I am physically fit and what not but they themselves have nothing to offer.
AS mentioned before, they do whatever their mothers tell them to do. And like someone said before- if you truly like someone they will fight for you. NO ONE can force you into anything. I know my parents will probably be shocked as hell when I bring home a caucasian but I am going to fight for it.
I just hate how my parents stress me out about marriage. They tell me I am growing old. Well ofcourse I am growing old but I CERTAINLY DO NOT want an arranged marriage. I think arranged marriages are the ONE REASON our society is always backstabbing, unhappy, etc etc.
Posted by: JM at April 13, 2005 2:26 PM
indian parents have clearly not adjusted to the norms and values of western society. Why arent arranged marriages extinct yet?
Posted by: Thita_curry 4u at April 13, 2005 7:56 PM
JM, I wish you good luck. I hope you can get your parents to understand your POV.
Posted by: Shanti at April 13, 2005 9:05 PM
JM,
I know what you mean, girl. I am a physically fit white woman who LOVES sports, watching and playing them, and love to be outside. I also love to travel and dig doing new things…. And it urks the heck out of me that my lazy indian boyfriend wants to sit on his can inside ALL of the time. I have to beg him to take his DOG for a walk! All he wants to do is sit at home and be homely.
I do have to hand it to the white men on this one. They know how to treat a lady, they treat women with respect, a large portion of them are NOT momma’s boys, and they LIKE sex! Imagine that. My boyfriend is so lazy that he doesn’t even like SEX!
You don’t want that for the rest of your life, so be proud to fight for what you want.
And 24 is so young. Please don’t give up your freedom yet….. There is so much fun to be had!
Even if you have to be the black sheep, don’t do it. Let what they say go in one ear and out the other…
Best of luck to you.
P.s. Why is it that indian men are momma’s boys?
Posted by: LZ at April 13, 2005 11:41 PM
I just ran into this site and I am honestly shocked at the blatant racism by some posters here on Indian guys. STOP the Indian guy bashing … to Shanti, LZ and whoever else. Just because you have individual experiences of guys not liking sex(how ridiculous is that?) and being momma’s boys etc, stop generalizing.
Can I generalize that all white guys are trailer trash? How about all black guys being thugs? The next logical thing some of you would say is cultural background and because of that Indian guys are momma’s boys etc which ofcourse is also not true since we are talking about the personality of a person here. So stop extrapolating your personal bad experiences into distorted generalizations towards half a Billion people, that is ridiculous!
All those rants apart … I’m a first generation Indian …. whom the likes of Shanti above take pleasure in ridiculing as a FOB guy. I have dated outside of my race/ethnic group almost all the times and I feel mainly attracted to white/hispanic/middle-eastern girls and surely not attracted to Indian girls(nothing against ‘em just my own preference). The girl I almost got engaged to is a Southern white girl. My parents ? Well, first of all I will make my own decisions in choosing my life partner and second of all my parents are open and accepting of anyone ….. their own quote ….”we do not care about her skin color but we just want you to be happy” …… now where does that put me? Go ahead …. judge me.
Interestingly the most racism I have faced as a first generation immigrant in US is from people of my own damn skin color(the likes of Shanti). Indians who were born here and who always want to assert their sense of “Americanism” by putting something down which they do not want to see themselves belong to.
I was in a party in Charlotte when an “ABCD” girl comes up to my then GF and says “why would you date an Indian guy from India, the only reason these guys date white girls is that American born Indian girls like me do not stoop down(??) to his level” . My ex was almost in tears when she told that to me and I was so pissed that I walked up to that girl and told her that I would not touch her prejudiced ass with a ten feet pole even with a bag over her head.
What do I do ? I am an IT professional(so damn typical right?), I am fit … I work out 3-4 days a week and I play in a local soccer league, I am learning to play conga drums, I do salsa dance and I am also a DJ in a few clubs here. I have decided to marry someone white/hispanic/middle-eastern since I am attracted to only them and not Indian. I also have open and accepting parents. But yeah, none of these things matter since I am Indian born and so I HAVE to be a momma’s boy with conniving close-minded parents according to y’all right?
So, yeah, go ahead …. judge me with your stereotypes!
Posted by: Arun at April 15, 2005 12:14 AM
Arun, you are an exception to the rule. Good for you. Before you stop your taking your frustration out on me though, realize that you are attributing what others said to me. My words are different from LZ and others.
Posted by: Shanti at April 15, 2005 7:43 AM
No, I did not intend my comment as taking out my frustration on someone here. Also, I probably should not have used your name but I ended up using it to illustrate my point. so … my apologies for that!
But I do beg to differ on the me being the exception part. Interestingly I have seen 30-40% of Indian guys I have run into dating outside of the Indian community not for the “experience of sleeping around” but on a serious intent. This percentage is actually increasing slowly as well.
But the reason why people only think about the remaining 60-70% is because it is different from mainstream America’s thinking about finding someone you want to be with. It is akin to staring at a black colored circle on a white wall. Even if there is significant “whiteness” in the wall, we are only drawn to the black circle since it is different from the surroundings. Natural human psychology to have a forceful yet tacit attention towards something that is different.
What irks/hurts peole like me in the 30-40% group is when I get asked a question like “Would’nt you just be marrying someone your parents find for you?” by some girl who has just focussed her thoughts on Indian marriage purely towards the aspects that are different …. going by the natural psychological intuition.
Reality check is even in India significant people are into love marriages and arranged marriages carried out by parents is not THE norm, but it stands out here since it is “different” from the norm here. The heck .. my parents were co-workers and had a love marriage and this was almost 30 years back.
All that apart, I am still disappointed at the comments made by LZ above …. just because her BF is lazy and is a momma’s boy, do all Indian guys behave that way? can show tons of white guys who have such a low energy and who do nothing but sit at home glued to NBA/NFL games. How ‘bout that?
My humble 0.02 to LZ … either change your BF or change your stereotypical thinking or both.
Posted by: Arun at April 15, 2005 9:28 AM
Arun, you mentioned yourself that you are still the minority. I guess that is the reason why most people are still a little suspicious. I am not saying that is right. I am not against Indian people of any kind. The only people I criticize are the close-minded.
Posted by: Shanti at April 15, 2005 7:42 PM
It’s unfortunate that a post over two years old can still cause such friction. Having followed this blog for awhile, I can safely say that Shanti is probably that last woman who would generalize recklessly.
It is possible for an Indian and non-Indian to have a solid marriage, but it will take a tremendous amount of effort (as in any marriage to make it work). My cousin married a white guy, but it took him over 5 years to win her parents over - and that was before he married her. Even when he did ask permission, he wrote a lengthy letter to them explaining his feelings, and there was still no guarantee they would approve. Now, her parents cannot imagine their lives without him in it. He is more likely then me to wear Indian garb when attending Indian events.
But having once dated a white woman myself, there is another risk that often goes unmentioned. Many white women (certainly not all) approach inter-ethnic dating as something to do before marriage to a safe white guy. Just as women do not want to be a notch on some guy’s belt, I do not want to be the “Indian guy” some girl dates for awhile before being discarded for whatever strikes her fancy next.
The biggest disillusionment came when I was living in DC, spending quite a few pleasant extended afternoon s with a charming, cute blonde woman who had a girl-next door quality. Then I found out she was married. Most married people I know mention this little fact fairly early on, so now the first thing I do is check her hands for a ring (or for a tan-line where a ring should be).
Posted by: KXB at April 18, 2005 3:34 PM
The thought has never crossed my mind to date a guy of a different ethnicity before settling back into dating someone of my own kind. So, KXB, you are basically saying that we are doing it to get experience? Well, it’s not correct in my case. I am in love with my indian counterpart and wouldn’t want to date anyone else.
There may be some people who just want to “try” out something different, but I can’t see anyone setting goals or targets of different kinds of people you are going to pursue…. I guess there are people with those aspirations, but for me, it is not one. You go out with who you like, someone that has something in common with you, someone to have a good time with and enjoy each others company. And of course, there is physical attraction.
I hate to say it, but probably any of the white girls that you know that have dated other ethnicities only to settle back with a white guy is probably because they’ve realized that those guys are more in tune with them and their way of life.
Bam. Hits home for all cultures, doesn’t it….
You can’t generalize about any culture because there are slimy, two timing, and conniving people of every walk of life. Just as you have your sweet, honest, marrying types….who would never dream of hurting someone they love.
Ciao,
WG
Posted by: whitegirl at April 26, 2005 10:32 PM
Guyz,
I am a 26 y.o India male and have been in the US for nearly 5 years now. When I went to grad school(engineering), there were hardly any americans around, leave alone american women. So, all my interaction was with my Indian friends only. Five years later, I do not have a single Indian friend. it just so happened that all of them got married (love/arranged marriages to other indian women) and do not have time for me anymore. i now hang out with ameicans nearly 100 % of my time- school, work, fun, voluneteering etc. I am really enjoying it and they do not treat me any different- one of the best things about america.
when i first started hanging out with americans, even a casual hug from an american girl seemed to suggest that she liked me and would throw me off guard( I frankly, never have been given a hug by anyone, even in my family. Its just not something we have to do to show love or respect and that’s why I have never done it. Again, I am not speaking for 1 billion Indians- just my close family of aunts, uncles and cousins). Now I am used to all that and have dated quite a few American women. but for someone with my family values, its definitely difficult to be aggressive in the dating scene as expected. I know that eventually I might end up marrying an Indian girl and I thus see no point in leading an American girl on on a romance and my values wold never allow me to “use” someone as somebody previously mentioned- I would never do that. So, whitegirl, it was very interesting to read ur thoughts from an american girl’s viewpoint. if i ever make the move to go the american-girl way, u wud just be the kind of girl i wud date kid!!! U TOTALLY ROCK!
what the guy has to understand is that the girl has feelings too and no one wants to be just “used” and what the (american) girl has to do on her behalf is to have a genuine interest in an other culture (here, indian) and not date him to “try something different”. Whitegirl and her boyfriend are perfect examples of the above types. He seemed to have genuinely liked her and had a long relationship with her and she reciprocated by loving him very deeply but I feel sorry their story did not have a happy ending and instead now has another life (the indian girl) caught in their midst. its such stories that kinda make me hesitate to make a move. both parties should be genuinely interested in seeing the relation to the end- “till death do us part”….but as we have seen, its not always possible.
My american friend whoz married to an Indian girl has been to India twice, goes with her to the local Indian temple and they have 2 beautiful toddlers. they seem extremely happy. I haven’t really had a lengthy conversation as to what see what makes them tick. If i do, I will post here.
Personally for me, when things got only a little serious with an American girl, I just had to tell her the fact that I might have to eventually end up marrying an Indian girl. This was on our second date and she really seemd to like me and even that made me guilty that I was leading her on. I liked her too but hey, that’s life. it migh have worked out or as we have seen numerous times, it may never have. Have anyone else here with an extremely conservative background like mine felt similarly at any time?
whitegirl! if u r ever in the dallas area, holla! i wud love to meet u and talk more! U ROCK! again! its so hard to find girls like u in dallas- the ones who are genuinley interested in cross-cultural friendships/ralationships.
peace out,
yo!
Posted by: yo! at April 30, 2005 6:25 PM
Guyz,
I am a 26 y.o Indian male (as in “from India” and not born here) and I have been in the US for nearly 5 years now. When I went to grad school(engineering), there were hardly any americans around, leave alone american women. So, all my interaction was with my Indian friends only. Five years later, I do not have a single Indian friend. it just so happened that all of them got married (love/arranged marriages to other indian women) and do not have time for me anymore. i now hang out with ameicans nearly 100 % of my time- school, work, fun, voluneteering etc. I am really enjoying it and they do not treat me any different- one of the best things about america.
when i first started hanging out with americans, even a casual hug from an american girl seemed to suggest that she liked me and would throw me off guard( I frankly, never have been given a hug by anyone, even in my family. Its just not something we have to do to show love or respect and that’s why I have never done it. Again, I am not speaking for 1 billion Indians- just my close family of aunts, uncles and cousins). Now I am used to all that and have dated quite a few American women. but for someone with my family values, its definitely difficult to be aggressive in the dating scene as expected. I know that eventually I might end up marrying an Indian girl and I thus see no point in leading an American girl on on a romance and my values wold never allow me to “use” someone as somebody previously mentioned- I would never do that. So, whitegirl, it was very interesting to read ur thoughts from an american girl’s viewpoint. if i ever make the move to go the american-girl way, u wud just be the kind of girl i wud date kid!!! U TOTALLY ROCK!
what the guy has to understand is that the girl has feelings too and no one wants to be just “used” and what the (american) girl has to do on her behalf is to have a genuine interest in an other culture (here, indian) and not date him to “try something different”. Whitegirl and her boyfriend are perfect examples of the above types. He seemed to have genuinely liked her and had a long relationship with her and she reciprocated by loving him very deeply but I feel sorry their story did not have a happy ending and instead now has another life (the indian girl) caught in their midst. its such stories that kinda make me hesitate to make a move. both parties should be genuinely interested in seeing the relation to the end- “till death do us part”….but as we have seen, its not always possible.
My american friend whoz married to an Indian girl has been to India twice, goes with her to the local Indian temple and they have 2 beautiful toddlers. they seem extremely happy. I haven’t really had a lengthy conversation as to what see what makes them tick. If i do, I will post here.
Personally for me, when things got only a little serious with an American girl, I just had to tell her the fact that I might have to eventually end up marrying an Indian girl. This was on our second date and she really seemd to like me and even that made me guilty that I was leading her on. I liked her too but hey, that’s life. it migh have worked out or as we have seen numerous times, it may never have. Have anyone else here with an extremely conservative background like mine felt similarly at any time?
whitegirl! if u r ever in the dallas area, holla! i wud love to meet u and talk more! U ROCK! again! its so hard to find girls like u in dallas- the ones who are genuinley interested in cross-cultural friendships/ralationships.
peace out,
yo!
Posted by: yo! at April 30, 2005 6:27 PM
what a mess! i confused jessica and whitegirl in my previous message! i am so reaaaallly sorry! whitegirl- i really hope things get better for you.
I read all thru’ the entire post ad go so engrossed in how many people out there were facing issues similar to me that I mixed up the names. Once again, I am very very sorry.
Posted by: yo! at April 30, 2005 6:35 PM
here is an interesting link along these lines…
http://www.rediff.com/news/2003/sep/16diary.htm
Posted by: yo! at April 30, 2005 6:41 PM
I’m confused, yo!
Do you think I’m cool or not? ha ha
Anyway, I made indian food the other night. Including naan. My boyfriend was beside himself. He’s like, “My mom doesn’t even make her own naan!” He loved it.
P.L.U.R.,
WG
Posted by: whitegirl at May 5, 2005 9:18 PM
WG! u still r da’ bomb!
u made naan?? dang! i am crashin the partry kid!where do u guys live!
Posted by: yo! at May 6, 2005 7:23 AM
Hi
I just recently started dating an Indian guy. We have been going out for 2 months. He is great. He has been in Canada for 5 years. We are both going to grad school. He is one of the nicest guys that I have ever met. He treats me great.
First of all let me point out that i am not looking to marry anyone. But when you get into a relationship you want to know that it is heading somewhere. He comes from a very traditional Indian family and he loves his family very deeply. I guess that my fear is that he will eventually dump me for an Indian girl. I feel bad for even thinking this about him because he really is a great guy. I totally respect and admire his devotion to his family. I also feel bad because I don’t think that it is fair to assume that he will do this just because he is from India. However, at the same time i do not want to be led on because i really like this guy and I know that he really likes me. Any advice?
Tiff
Posted by: tiff at May 6, 2005 8:06 PM
there’s no way to know tiff. just talk to him and ask him if he’s ready for the long haul if things get serious between u two. its never too early to talk about stuff like that even though its just 2 months since u started dating him. it might save a lot of heartbreak later. also depends on how much emotion u attach to the relationship.
Posted by: yo! at May 16, 2005 9:24 AM
Well, I’ve been married to at first generation Indian for little over three years…. here’s a low down for ya girls thinking of following me. 1. His parent’s may never approve. If you have to have that approval to be happy, just keep moving on. If ya don’t & he don’t, keep trekking. 2. His parent’s will always be a very top priority for him, most of the time ahead of you. If you need to be top of his list all the time, keep moving. If you mature enough to handle you might not be #1 all the time, give it a shot. 3. I’ve found he’s alot more conservative than other guys i did date. That means treating you better but also means not wanting to take a lot of chances on other thing, serious or fun. As for my story, we have our ups & downs like most marriages. Though I don’t have anything to compare it against, I believe differences in culture (espec. w/parents) does give it an extra strain. The bottom line comes down to this: if his parents object, will he still stand by you? If so, you’ve got the best man you could ever find.
Posted by: blueI'dgirl at May 16, 2005 2:13 PM
Hey Arun,
Thats great that you have been raised to live for yourself. You form about 1% of the Indian guys who ARE actually normal. Unfortunately y’all are a scare variety.
Posted by: JM at May 19, 2005 8:23 AM
:shocked:
With all due respect, most of you are completely full of shit. I have a hard time believing all the generalizations that are getting thrown around here and are passing for fact.
I’m Indian. I’ve been here for all but one year of my life. Putting me in an arranged marriage with some chick from the old country would so complete suck, it wouldn’t even be funny. Putting me in an arranged marriage with one of those princesses (IAPs) who came from India and grew up here would be worse still. Hell, I ride a Harley to motorcycle rallies. I go to Cardinals games at Busch Stadium and drink beer. My favorite singer is Alan Jackson. I enjoy camping.
What could I possibly have in common with a woman whose primary concern is what sari and necklace to wear to the Diwali festival at the community center?
Posted by: Shovelhead at May 19, 2005 12:33 PM
Hello Pot, I believe you haven’t met kettle yet! Generalizations about women whose primary concern is what sari and necklace to wear to the Diwali festival at the community center don’t really look good in a comment allgedly decrying generalizations now, would it?
Posted by: shanti at May 19, 2005 12:58 PM
well said Shanti! looks like we all agree with u on one thing now!
LOL!
“I hate people who generalize especially ‘women whose primary concern is what sari and necklace to wear to the Diwali festival at the community center’ ”
guess shovelhead was in a hurry to comment! and looks like he has not seen indian women these days. what sari is he talking about?? they can be as “modern” and hip as any other! just look at mallika sherawat at cannes!
http://specials.rediff.com/movies/2005/may/17mallika1.htm
buahahahaha!
Posted by: indian at May 19, 2005 4:32 PM
me, as an indian-gujarati hindu girl, i find a lot of Indian guys to be poor as boyfriends and even husbands. It’s true, a lot 9though not all), of them are momma’s boys, and feel that we indian girls raised her in the US are often with few morals or are filthy and impure, and cannot be ver good traditional wives, which isn’t always true. Of course, there are bad Indian girls in the US too, but I must say, we take a lot of nonsense from our men, who’re often demanding, unappreciative, and not romantic. Moreover, they suck in bed! They aren’t good lovers, for the most part. True, it really is so. I want somebody who”l love me and treat me like a lady, he may love his family, but he can’t be a momma’s boy, and I also have realized that I must sometimes put him even before my own folks, but in return for his gentalmanly demeanor, I’ll treat him with love, support, understanding, and I’ll serve him the best food and give him a wonderful time in bed! I’m not dirty-minded, but I do feel sex is important in a relationship, and women DO need good sex from a man, though i can enjoy bad sex with someone whom I still love, for the most part. Unfortunately, India is still socially behind, and I’m not gonna waste my time looking for Indians and possible never settle down, due to the fact that they put their folks first most of the time. I’m not saying Indian girls are perfect, but from my own experiences, I feel Indian men can be good for joking around with and all, but they don’t make strong, committed husbands, at least not emotionally. They’re very emotionally dependant on us. Luckily, I feel i’ve found the perfect man: he’s sweet, honest, has beautiful big eyes, is very understanidng, and not a momma’s boy. Wanna know the country he’s from? Sri Lanka. Yes, he’s a Sihalese buddhist, and we’ve fallen in love deeply, and though my folks may not approve of us, I’ll marry him, for he’s a wonderful man. Sri lanka doesn’t have this stupid arranged marriage system or caste system anymore, nor are the men there so emotionally insecure of themselves. This certainly proves India is very behind most of the world. He’s a wonderful man, and I’m glad we’re together.
Posted by: shef at May 27, 2005 9:56 PM
ladies guess what? me, a 21 year old gujarati-indian-hindu girl, have found the perfect man: he’s average built, has a funny and sweet personality, respects me, is very romantic, and I surmise he’ll be wonderful in bed, for he acts and thinks like a real man. he’s not Indian, as many Indian men can’t fullfill these qualities, though there are many good indian men out there, nor is he white. He’s a Sri lankan-sinhalese Buddhist. he’s the best to me, and I hope to marry him one day. By the way., it’s true, indian men do suck in bed, as do a lot of Indian women, but that’s becasue they were brought up with the idea that sex is wrong. However, I;m an Indian girl who loves emotional and physical love, and feel it’s necessary to have both in life, and I’m glad I’ve found the perfect friend, companion, and hopefully consort, once I finish nursing school and we settle down. best of luck to you all:)
Posted by: shef at May 27, 2005 10:04 PM
I am astonished. Either people are lying and totally denying things which were mentioned on this post: that the indian men aren’t good lovers, they are momma’s boys, have temper problems, and are eternally married to mommy and daddy and would put them over anybody—or am I totally seeing things???
I don’t get it. People are blatantly stating things that others are denying. This cracks my stuff up.
Shovelhead, kudos to you. You sound perfect to me!!
Ok, this is a newsflash to me and can someone explain this: Why were indians brought up to think that sex is bad???? How could someone warp someone’s thoughts about one of the best things EVER?
I rate food with sex! You need these things to live…
Remember the Rusted Root song, “All I need is food and creative love…”?
Peace.
Posted by: whitegirl at June 1, 2005 7:09 PM
Momma’s boy comment is very true. It is the thing we probably fight about most. Though momma’s wishes & mine don’t cross often, and usually we it does, it s not worth the battle…. And even then its not 100%, on extremely important issues, he still sides with me.
Posted by: blueI'dgirl at June 2, 2005 4:36 PM
I just find it a hard thing to comprehend that the guy that you are married to, give your life for, sleep in the same bed every night, etc. will side with his mother over you. He has to live with YOU, not his mommy! I’m convinced that it won’t be that way for me, because I’m a fiercely strong and bullheaded person. So, if people don’t know any better, they will not try to tell me what to do…. I always listen to what others tell me, but ultimately, the final say is mine. When I have a family it will be mine to raise and do with as I wish. Nobody else has any right to tell me how I want my family to be raised. And if that is a problem, they will end up being sorry.
Posted by: whitegirl at June 2, 2005 11:53 PM
If you are a student of sociology, this thread would be great fodder. The following are inescapable.
1. Self Flagellation amongst desis. Why did Shanti have to speak for the entire desi male population? Is this reflective of Shanti’s inner self and her prejudice?
2. Trophy theory. Like it or not, even to so called progressive folks succumb to the trophy syndrome.
3. When did Mallika Sherawat become the embodiment of progression?
I am outta here
//
Posted by: prope//er at June 4, 2005 8:19 AM
I don’t remember if this was the site or not, but i think someone posted something on dowries, and and how indian men often demnad them, and so I think the best solution for that is marrying out. seriously. I encourage all indian women to go for non-indian men. the system of dowries and all this nonsense about indian men not being able to think for themselves makes me barf, and I think it’s a good thing to marry non-indian(preferably western) men, for they’re much more appreciative, caring, and smart and loving.
Posted by: shef at June 27, 2005 12:12 AM
…my dear girl out there,thgh i may be very new to this posting thingy and stuff,i was really attracted to your ‘argument’ with Shef…and,your last posting as i see it(as mentioned above)…her husband RESPECTS his mommy,that is why he would be siding her over Shef…since Shef and her husband are MARRIED to each other,they would have time when they are alone to be talking and solving out problems together…when Shef’s husband sided his mom,i’m sure Shef understands his reasons…there could be many reasons;respect,trying not to hurt his mom’s feelings,or maybe just simply going with the flow in the name of PEACE…for a blissful marriage,understanding,commitment,give & take,and love itself is very important…Whitegirl,sticking to your stubbornness and making it a must for things to be done your way will not help to solve or cooperate anything in a marriage…that is called selfishness…lets not say only in marriage,even in friendships and family…frankly,i’m not discriminating you,whitegirl…this is just a piece of my mind..i hope you would accept my comments as positively as possible…with lotza lurve,care and concern…
Posted by: lil ladie at July 7, 2005 4:49 AM
Ask anyone if I am selfish. They will certainly disagree. Just because I am particular about the things I care about does not make me a selfish person.
I fully respect my mother and father, but was brought up to think independently. First to take in all sides, thoughts, etc., but to make a decision that was best for me. So, I will always listen and be respectful, but it may not mean that I will always agree and do things a certain way just because someone thinks so. In other words, I have a brain of my own and like to use it.
I do not and will not live my life a certain way just to satisfy others.
That’s called purgatory and not being able to live freely.
Peace & Love,
WG
Posted by: whitegirl at July 13, 2005 3:52 PM
i feel that it’s also a good idea to listen to your folks and all, then decide what’s best for you. I feel that a man must listen and respect his folks, but then he must also use his own brain and so what’s best for him, not automatically what his folks want him to do. a lot of indian folks try to guilt trip and blackmail their kids into doing what they want, and that’s not love, that’s fear, which is wrong. I feel my husband should think, then decide what’s best for himself, after he has considered all sides, from mine, then his own folks. yet, i certainly don’t want to be married to some momma’s boy, who does practically what everything his mom wants him to do. This to me shows poor leadership skills and a lack of self confidence in a man, which i don’t want. I wouldn’t feel secure with a man who’s emotionally tied down to his folks all the time, and who can’t think for himself. I know i may sometimes have to put my husband before my folks, and depending on the situation, i’ve to deicde what’s the best to do, even if it’s not what my folks want. every woman looks for security in a man, not just financial security, but emotional security, and she hopes her man will be emotionally secure enough to do what’s best for himself, and be confident wnough to lead the family, not depend on the wife to get him through everything. do you get what i mean? anyonw have thoughts on my post on a man thinking for himself and that being related to security? thanks.
Posted by: shef at July 17, 2005 8:48 AM
First time posting in this site. Was bored and checking google for “mad dogs” and ended up here.
Now, about all this stuff about arranged marriage, Indian men, dominating parents, etc, etc that I read posted many times across here.
SOme background fist: I am a Indian business man based in Hong Kong and travel to India every 2 to 3 months for last 7 years.
During my recent trips to India, I noticed an interesting shift in the scenario. There a lot more inter-racial couples(one Indian and the other non-brown) at the immigration queues in India. Many of them have children too. They all look as well adjusted (as best as couples could be at an immigration queue.)
I believe this reverse migration of well-adjusted inter-racial couples back to India, will change perceptions within India and hopefully parents would become more easier on their son.
By the by, I am married to a wonderful chinese lady whom I met here in Hong Kong. And I do know of many other Indian men married to Chinese women.
Shanthi..please get out and see the world more. And try to get back to India too. Your perceptions are not valid.
WhiteGirl..If you love your man and he loves you, enjoy your relationship.
About his parents, even if you were brown and born of the same caste / creed, they could treat you with indifference. Eventually, they will come to their senses and align with you.
Posted by: China Man at July 18, 2005 11:19 AM
China Man, thank you for your kind words and what you bring to the table. It’s exactly what I’ve been trying to express, but haven’t been so successful.
Shef, sounds like you aren’t happy with indian men, so go for your westerner. I actually have to agree with you on some of the things you said. And the whole thought of men looking forward to a dowry makes me want to yack, too. It’s sad that the parents have to bribe the men to take their daughter off of their hands….
I would actually be very offended if my parents were trying to make me look better by offering money, land and gifts. It would make me wonder whether or not the man was marrying me for ME or my dowry.
Definitely not good for the self esteem. If I was an indian woman, I would marry a westerner, too! At least I would know that they loved me for me!
Take care.
Posted by: whitegirl at July 20, 2005 11:47 PM
Reached this thread by mistake, nevertheless interesting!
White Girl, your situation doesn’t puzzle me too much - your boyfriend’s parents are subtly telling him to dump you and find an Indian girl ( they fear them meeting you will add legitimacy, some form of a tacit approval to the relationship). Now why couldn’t they have been more direct about it? coz they don’t want to provoke their son too much, lest he may get impulsive (exercing his total independence) and do the very thing they want to avoid. In any case, before you end up marrying him, make sure you understand one thing: Indian parents will continue to have a big influence in their children’s (and by extension their family) lives, even after they get married .That’s a pretty safe generalization.
Unrelated to the above, read some of your comments on arranged marriage - culturally, marriage in India is seen not just between the man and the woman, but also the families - now that may seem weird in the west - but many of us tend to maintain close knit (in my case extending to the third / fourth cousins). My parents introduced me to several girls (most were studying / working in the US) - all of them fit their expectations, I had a great pool to date from and eventually got married to one of em - and has worked out great. So, my point is from your perspective arranged marriage may sound lunatic - but if you know the entire context, you may think quite different!
“If you haven’t found what you’re looking for, keep looking” … Cheers to all..
Posted by: Ice_Man at July 21, 2005 12:02 AM
That is messing with him in a round about, completely messed up way….. And if he’s too stupid to see it, then I feel sorrier for him than I already do.
Personally, I just don’t care anymore. Plain and simple. I’m starting to move on. If things work out, they do.
If things don’t work out, no big deal again. It’s his loss. I have plenty of guys who want to date me who don’t have mommy/daddy issues.
Ciao.
Posted by: whitegirl at July 21, 2005 10:44 AM
sure, arranged marriages may seem wonderful to many indians but try telling that to those girls who can’t pay the dowry, and often have to stay single, and be called an old maid. try telling that to those people of low castes who’re shunned upon in indian society, and whom will be rejected for marriage, just because people will think them to be too low. tell arranged marriages are wonderful to those people who’re so limited by their folks’ choices, and cannot find love because they’ve no ohter choices. tell that to the husband and wife who’ve to be the slaves of their parents forever, even after marriage, so they never get to do a thing on their own, and have to live for the wishes of those who gave birth to them. tell that to the many indian girls who’re made the slaves to their in-laws just to please their husbands and not feel the shame of being labelled a bad wife, and often enduring emotional and physical abuse. no way should arranged marriages be the norm in the world. you should have open dating, and your folks can introduce you to people along the way, but they shouldn’t presure you to settle down, or do other eomtional tortures on you. how’d you like to live in a society like india, where people tell you how to think and act, what to be, what age to settle down, whom you should settle down with. you can never do a thing on your own, or be free to make your own decisions. India may look modern on the outside, with its recent economic boom and all, but scratch the surface and you’ll see a contry where the laws are easily replaced at times by a more traditional culture that imposes its will on the people. not only does the country discriminate against women, it makes life miserable for the people who actually want to mnake reforms and move into the modern times. in 1961 the govt of india passed the anti-dowry act, but because of the sonogram system, many parents found out ahead of time how to determine the sex of a child, and so the ratio of boys to girls went from 945 to 927 girls to 1000 boys in the last few decades. india is facing a crisis on how to accept modernity, and has a long way to go. to eradicate the dowry system, the system of arranged marriages have to go, so the husband and wife feel obligated to each other, not to their families, the they also have to learn to live separate from their folks after mariage, since that lessens the chances of parental interference and pressures. they must also let the bride and groom pay for most of their own wedding expenses, so there will be less discrepencies on property. anyone agreee or disagree? any solutions? I’ve talked this over with my sri lankan boyfriend, and he’s happy with what we’ve decided. I think dating a non-indian man has been the best choice i’ve ever made. I wish it to all indian women, despite what their folks may say. true, they’re not physically abusive, but they are unappreciative and emotionally absent from the women. I’d rather be with an average sri lankan who’s independent-minded, yet still respects me and his folks, will love me for me, not in dowry, and will know when to be there if i’m down and need my tears and sorrows kissed away, rather than an indian gentleman who will only love you if his mommy approves of it, will often let you down when you need him, and will not even say a single thank you for all the work you do for him. this is true, even if sounds biased, stereotypes are often based on facts of life, or they wouldn’t be there. any opinions on this from both indian and non-indian girls? thanks.
Posted by: shef at July 21, 2005 9:54 PM
Shef, I agree with you 100%. I think you are doing the right thing. You have to go with your heart. Once you know what happiness is like, you can’t accept anything less. And if you have less, you are more than likely to stray or crave that type of attention. Which is not good.
Do you know what my boyfriend said to me? He doesn’t like to make “small talk” with me. Since when does normal conversation consist of small talking. Tell me….what Neanderthal type of environment was this learned in?
Whatever. I want someone that I can actually talk to, joke with (I feel I can’t do this, either), have a smile on my face with. Another thing is the emotional part. He is not affectionate, doesn’t like to kiss, snuggle, etc. I’m so deprived! If I want sex, his idea of foreplay is, “Go to the bedroom.”
I’m just to be a trophy, mute girlfriend, who is supposed to do what he says, be a good little girlfriend, not make a noise.
In the past couple of days, I’m really debating what I want, because deep down—this isn’t worth the hassle to me.
He is a pussface, who is constantly in a “funk” as he calls it because he wants me, but not at the expense of letting down his parents.
Until he digs his head out of his butt, I’m not putting up with it. I don’t want a life devoid of these things because this is the way he thinks they should be. I want so much more than that.
I pity those who don’t have the freedom I have… THANK GOD I’m not married to it! And I do not want to be caught up in a world that ever limits me. I don’t want to have to do what other people say. My parents have never been that way, and at 29, I won’t take too kindly to that behavior.
I think my boyfriend needs a fresh 18 year old. One that has never been in a relationship, and who has no idea of what a good relationship could be like. Because any other girl would dump him.
Just like I’m going to do. :)
Posted by: whitegirl at July 22, 2005 9:22 AM
thanks whitegirl. I think you’re a nice person, and i want it to work out for you, so i advise you to rethink your whole relationship with your bf, then decide what you feel is right for you. i feel that the security part of your bf is missing. when i mean security, i don’t mean financial security, i mean emotional security. every women wants to see that her man isn’t intimidated either by her or her folks or even his folks, that he’ll be there when you need a hug from him, that he knows how to have a nice romance with a girl, and that he’s confident enough in himself that he doesn’t have to depend on his folks or even you all the time to make choices. He must be emootionally confidrnt with himslef, so he won’t try to be something he’s not. I feel that in a good marriage, there needs to be love, respect, and equality between man and wife. simultaneously, the husband must be confident enough in his abilities to lead the household, or else the woman and even her kids will suffer, because she’ll have to take charge all the while working, raising kids, cooking, and cleaning, and everything else. That’s where i feel indian guys fail as good husbands. I don’t mena all of them, but a great number of them cannot think for themselves, so they’re always dependent on their folks or their wives to do the thinking for them, and so they lack in quality communication with their wives. It’s hard for educated, outgoing indian girls especially raised in western countries to find much in common with them, even if he has a good education. college degree itself doesn’t make the man, his willlingnes to lead the family, respect others yet still affirm himself as leader of the household, and his understanding of the woman and communication with her are all just as essential. I have to give whtie men credit on this one. many of them aren’t so emotionally weak, they don’t just blindly do whatever their folks want them to do, and they do know how to properly romance a woman. in a strange way, even if an indian man is a rich man, i still wouldn’t feel emotionally secure with him as i would with my sri lankan man. I love him, for he is the best to me. like i said before, indian men aren’t physically abusive, but they are unappreciative, disrespectful and not emotionally there for their women. ture, white men can also be that way, but there’s a strong disproportion in the numbers between white men and indian men when i consider it from a broad picture. whitegirl, i hope you find someone who appreciates you, and who can affirm himself as a man, not as a little boy. just out of curiosity, how old is your boyfriend? Also, whitegirl, do you get what i’m trying to say when i mean a woman looks for not just financial security in a relationship, but emotional as well? i ask you this becasue my indian friends think i’m crazy, and that i don’t know what i’m talking about, but i still strongly feel this way. Do you think i’m being snoby or arrogant? how do yu interpret what i’m feeling when i say a woman looks for emotional securityin a man and about what i feel towards indian men? thanks.
Posted by: shef at July 22, 2005 12:21 PM
Hi. Three years ago, I met the love of my life. He was Eastern Indian, arrived in the US fourteen years prior. I am white American, divorced, and I had one daughter at the time. Everything that was different from me were the very things that I loved about him the most. I still believe he had the most beautiful skin, gorgeous eyes, amazing accent. I loved everything he would teach me about India and Hinduism. Five months after meeting him, I became pregnant. He moved into my home and became a stepfather of sorts to my oldest daughter. He said I was his heart and that he would love me forever. He wanted to marry me, but he wanted his mother’s approval first. He planned to visit India for only three weeks and return in time for the birth of our child. When I was seven months pregnant, he left. One phone call from India to say he had arrived safely, and then nothing. He wasn’t present when our daughter was born. He returned to the US when she was two months old and he was married. Now, it’s as if I never meant anything to him and he’s a stranger to our daughter. He didn’t just leave me, he left all three of us. Although I have a beautiful daughter, I would never suggest dating a man from another culture. Not only do they not love you, they don’t even like American women.
Posted by: Erin at July 23, 2005 12:58 PM
Erin - I am so sorry to hear what happened with your man. but it makes me glad that I finished the 13 month relationship I had with my Sikh Indian man before it went that far. I am very sad but also deep down I know he was not right for me for all the reasons that Shef says in the posting before yours. My man was a stereo-typical Indian man with no guts and no self-confidence. He liked me beause I was strong and independant but he also couldnt deal with that and tried to bring me down.
My friends hated the way he treated me and eventually I told his parents about us and he totally denied me to them.
Take care of yourself and your children
Posted by: LondongirlUK at July 29, 2005 4:12 AM
to erin and londongirluk, my heart goes out to both of oyu. it’s not just white girls that indian guys treat poorly, it’s us indian girls too, and that’s why i’m with my sri lankan man. i hope you guys don’t hate us indian girls here, for i find the behavior of many indian guys repulsive, and i feel that it’s wrong for a man to put a woman through what you two went through. to be honest, i’m afraid to be with an indian man, for the way they treat us girls, so i’ve let my sri lankan man know thsi, and he understands very well. i don’t agree with what erin said about not dating man from other culture, since i’m with a guy from sri lanka, and he’s really nice. If an indian man cannot offer me true love, but a sri lankan man can, then why shouldn’t i be with him, just because he’s from another culture? sri lankans are similar to us, but there are a good number of differences, and if i can work them out with him, and he gives me his love, and i take care of him and reutrn that love, then what’s the problem? i agree everyone should try to marry their own, but sometimes, it”s not possible, and so we might have to marry out, like i plan on doing. i too wanted an indian, but because of their behavior, i’m scared to be with them, and have lost interest in them. what’s wrong with what i’m doing?as an american of indian descent, educated and raised in the west, with indian boys by my side, i find it hard to emotionally connect with them, or find anything in common with them, so i’ve found a sri lankan, and he’s good. i’ve a legitimate excuse for being with him. my folks may not approve, but i’ve to fight for him, and if all else fails, maybe we’ll move out and get married. londongirlUK or erin, or white girl, can anyone help me?
Posted by: shef at July 29, 2005 3:46 PM
Erin, what you posted is the utmost epitome of disgust. Any man that walks out on any woman is disgusting, but what he did was repulsive. He should have his privates cut off.
Shef, you have to fight for him. It is obvious that you love him very much. At some point in your life you have to decide what is right for YOU, no matter what other people think. Your parents aren’t married to them, YOU are. Go for it. I’m sure that you are a brilliant, beautiful person, so you deserve nothing less than to be treated with respect and loved back. Don’t let anybody belittle you and tell you that you deserve less. And if ANYBODY needs an eyeopener, they should read this blog.
I was out one night and started chatting with an indian guy at Cosi. He is going through a divorce with an indian girl that was an arranged marriage. He said that a lot indians that live in America are still living in the stone ages when it comes to arranged marriages, because when they migrated here it was the only thing they knew…..but he said times in India have changed, but I guess the indians living here are in a time warp.
Posted by: whitegirl at July 31, 2005 8:43 PM
whitegirl, thanks for your help, i think what you’re doing is right too, and i’m sure you’ll be okay. it’s true, things are changing in india, but it’s still only 5% of marriages that are love marriages, for most are still arranged. however, people are getting away from that trend, and it’s still gonna be another 20 to 40 yearsa before it’s completely like here, but it’s good that things are changing, albeit slowly. but you see, even in india, if i were to live ther, it’d be hard to date and all, since our society still doesn’t approve of romance yet. thus, i don’t want to wait around for an indian to show up, and besides, after what’s been going on, I’m scared to be with an indian, since a lot can be too traditional at times. for proof of that, i’ll mention my own father, who always did what his folks wanted him to do, even with emotionally hurting mom, and when his folks exploited him. What do you think of that? the man closest to me and whom i loved proves this point. omy cousins weren’t allowed to date in college, and they’re still 30 and have never had a boyfriend, and they’re getting frustrated, and so are their folks. thus, even my aunts are openly encouraging us to date once in college, since waiting around for your folks to find you somebody after school isn’t a guarantee of finding true love. true, there have been a few indian guys here who have wanted to date me, but for some of them, things couldn’t work out, so it proves it’s hard finding a person nowadays. see, not all indian guys are momma’s boys, but because they grew up in the old system, they’re still used to that way of life, and thus they can’t be romantic and openly date us indian girls. there are also indian girls who’ll harass indian boys after an arranged marriage, and marry them in india just to come here. so, these arranged marriages often involve greed and control, and i don’t want that. i want to be in a long-term, caring, understanding, and loving relationship with someone whom i feel is meant for me, and that’s why i’m gonna make sure i’m with a nice guy, and that he’ll treat me like a lady, like my sri lankan guy is, and i’m gonna fight for him, even though my folks may not be crazy about it this arranged marriage system is still heavily present even with educated people, but it’ll go away in a few more decades in india, but i can’t wait for that. I want true love, and i hope to find it, like i wish for all of you. My mom said if i’ve to go through an arranged marriage, that she’d put out an ad in the indian personals section, saying educated registered nusre-gujarati Hindu girl seeks nice north indian hindu doctor/lawyer/pharmacist/engineer boy, and after she’s looked at all the backgrounds of the guys(i can help her and have imput in that as well), then she’ll let me meet them and see for myself if they’re good enough for me to marry, and she strongly hopes it’s after 6 months of courtship, since she doesn’t want me to take that long. I told her i can’t promise her that, since i may still not be ready after 6 months. she got upset, but i told her that i’m sorry, but i have to settle down when i’m ready first. while my folks are much more respectful of my needs, in that snese that they’re willing to let help out in the process of finding guys, i still find this system oppressive, since it’s still very limiting. My mom says she’s gonna give the first prefernece to the doctor boy first, since they make more money, but that she’ll consider other guys only if there’s something wrong with the doctor boy after we look at their criterion. This isn’t natural, for how can you just limit yourselves to guys in personala ads with just descriptions and a photo? True,m my mom wants the best for me, but only if you can’t just be limited to men of the highest financial status, since times change, and people can have ups and down financially in a marriage. i think open dating should take place, and your folks/friends should just introduce you to people along the way, not limit yourself to this system. one of my cousins is 29 and she’s never dated a guy ever, because her folks wanted her to marry a guy from her own caste, which is a very small cast, and also to a guy with an appropriate educational background, and when they introduced her to these guys, it didn’t work out, since they couldn’t mentally connect. moreover, her caste was very small, and so most guys there were already married, and she’s still single, and hating it. Her folks nearly forced it on her that he must be of the same caste, and she listened, and she’s still single because of that. who’s winning here? nobody. I know many people who’re in unhappy arranged marriages in my family, and 6/10 of them are still together, because of the stigma of divorce. see? divorce rates can be very misleading. to have a happy marriage, you need love, trust, respect, compromise, and an overall common emotional connection or trust between two people. in my family, it was all same religion, occupation, caste, etc, and little emotion towards the other person, and that’s why they ended up unhappy. india has chaged as there are more love mariages, women are more educated, and nuclear families have arisen drastically, but it’s still a traditional society, (sometimes even still backward), and it still has a long road ahead before it’s like in the rest of the world. my folks want me to marry a guy from india if i can’t find an indian here, but i feel that i’ve found my sri lankan, and i have to be with him. can any of you here imagine that? going back there to find a guy? it’s possible to find a guy who’s good, but many of them will want me just to come here, and i don’t think it’s a good idea to take that chance. thus, i hope all goes well for me, for going back there is frightening a concept for me.
Posted by: shef at August 1, 2005 8:50 AM
Jess said ” I pursued the relationship. Why? Because I loved him, truly, madly and deeply. I felt that knowing and being with him even for the shortest amount of time is better than not being with him at all. I knew that the time for us to part would come—but I hoped and prayed that his parents would have a change of heart and see past the constraints of tradition and culture and would see that we really did love each other. Well, that never happened”
I am so touched(? cant get the word to describe exactly how I feel).. but this is the factor that differentiates an Indian born and bred girl vs an American born Indian or a white girl or… a middle eastern..etc,.. the fact that they are “in love” and they give 100% hell .. 200% to this.. I have had a very long relation with a caucasian woman, who was more than a decade older than me, she and I were HAPPY, and our relation was healthy, BUT she knew and I knew all along that it wouldnt just not work, but we feel so lucky we know each other, the times we shared and all the things that we did, we cherish, and we are there for each other, forever, CAN you imagine an Indian girl like this?? i mean.. they are even scared to acknowledge that they have had boyfreinds in the past, they deny it completely, again its probably insecurity!. just my two cents here.
actually, even in a relation, usually its always about the future, its a good thing to think about a future.. but at the cost of the present??? I really dont understand..
As far as what Shanti had to say, she was probably reacting, and she cud just be pardoned for that,wat say whitegirl?;)! I was really surprised to read that she is married and that too NOT arranged, unbelievable! I really wish I cud find out if she is HAPPY, as in feeling that high, that perpetual smile when people are in love and all those mushy things that I wish I knew!!,, I just get a feeling, that she is in denial, that just as there are Indian guys who r jerks, there are first generation Indian guys who are 1)Attractive2)Fit3)Charming4)Gentleman5)Courteous6_respectful
I mean Shanti is the woman at the mall who would do a double take if she saw a white/asian et al girl with an Indian guy, and of course,kind of stare or just give the dreaded look(I have gotten a few!!) its part surprise and part denial ;)! I wud say Shanti, please dont be hasty and dont be judgemental sweetheart, and as your name says.. Peace..right guys?
Shef, I think you brought up a very important point here regarding caste, its really amazing that girls in India(work), here is how they DECIDE if he is dateable or no!!!..and to all of you out there.. these are just my views and I think I am entitled to think the way I want to... coming to the girls work.. a new guy joins.. 1)he is north Indian/south?— North??.. all the south girls drop out!!!2)is he a Brahmin? Nope?.. mmmm the brahmin girls drop out!!!3)punjabi… marathi..blah blah… and it goes on, and the guy wud be lucky IF there is any factor that wud keep him in the game!!!
oops.. I forgot.. I have been in the US for about 6 years(in April 06), work and am not so bad to look at either
Before I forget, a few words for Erin, my deep regrets for you, and i am sorry for wat happened with you, if I could I wud track this guy down and shoot him, he is a low life and the way he treated you makes my blood boil, I am sure you are fine without his ugly presence in your life anymore.
This is a great topic and loved reading it, whitegurl, wat say wanna hook up?? and Shef good luck with your love life.—Shanti..shanti..shanti..;)…peace..peace peace!!!
Posted by: Shy at August 2, 2005 2:53 AM
shy, what did you exactly mean by when you said that there’s no way an indian guy can keep himself in the game with the caste system? i couldn’t understand what you said, sorry. by the way, in india, i agree dating is more common than before, but it’s still small, like 5% or a bit more. moreover, if a girl has had a boyfriend or two in the past, then she’s seriously looked down upon as loose and all.I remember growing up, and all the lies and games girls and some boys would have to play to get around the traditional and the elders who’d prevent us from freely dating and sometimes even intermingling. maybe that’s why there’s so much sexual harassment in india. think about it: if there’s no dating or only little intermingling between the sexes, then the guys will try to touch grap, grope, and pull the ladies in any way they can so they can have access to them, because they have no other way of being together. Parents there still try to heavily break up love and romance in india between girls and guys, as i know from going there 2 years ago, so why do people keep saying it’s “changed so much and it’s so common to see dating in india?” i personally feel a lot of it is exaggeration. I feel that the arranged marriage system is still heavily the norm in india, and it’s not gonna change for another 20 or so years, in my opinion. can you explain this to me? thanks.
Posted by: shef at August 2, 2005 12:10 PM
Shanthi, I would like to reply to you on this statement you have made.
>>What really comes across in the initial “whitegirl” posts and this guy’s posts is a lot of insecurity. They cannot believe someone can hold views different from them and still be a happy, well-adjusted person. They will make assumptions and jump to conclusions about you since that makes them feel superior and lets them carry on with their worldview without so much as a rethought of their belief system. If you follow the thread though, you will see whitegirl’s 180 on the issue.
** I am also not sure what Shy was trying to express. So, I will keep away from that.
** But, about your comments about WhiteGirl do seem inappropriate. She has in no way been sounding insecure. She is or was in love with this man from an alien culture and has been trying to understanding how to relate and make it work.
For anyone who follows through the links here, WhiteGirl come across as someone who is (now) was, in love with this Indian Guy and has been really trying to hard to understand Indian culture, way of life, etc.
Now, if she has made a 180 degree change, so what ? Why does it make her insecure ? Would you also not dump your husband when you find him doing something that does not meet your standard ?
Posted by: ChinaMan at August 2, 2005 12:44 PM
Chinaman, whitegirl is not insecure anymore - she was when she tried to attribute a lot of stuff to me that was not true. Read her initial accusations - she cannot imagine I might be putting forth a different perspective. Instead she goes on to attack me - initially imagining me to be a guy - then assuming I am not married - then assuming I had an arranged marriage - all the while when all she had to do was read the post that started it all and realize just how off-base she was in the assumptions.
I didn’t make any assumptions about her. It was a simple flippant remark that totally set her off, which leads me to believe that she was definitely insecure with herself and her relationship at that point and that was where the defensiveness was coming from. She would have reacted more calmly if she was not being so defensive.
I am not saying there is anything wrong with her dumping the guy either. Good for her. We need more women like her, so men will realize they cannot take us for granted. All I was implying was that she actually came around to my way of thinking towards the end of the thread, which doesn’t make it bad now, does it!
Posted by: shanti at August 2, 2005 12:59 PM
Shanthi: Is your way of thinking that non-Indian women should not have an Indian boyfriend/husband, or all women should not have an Indian boyfriend/husband ?
Also, we can wait to see if/what WhiteGirl responds about your assumption about her coming around to your way of “thinking”
I do agree with you no can be taken for granted. Respect is required in a relationship.
Posted by: ChinaMan at August 2, 2005 2:08 PM
Chinaman - I think it is perfectly fine for non-Indians men/women to date Indian men/women. In my experience though, I have found most Indian men pretty conservative socially. I have found them sexually repressed and looking for a girlfriend as a sexual outlet as opposed an emotional one. I am not saying all of them are like that. I have met and worked with hundreds of them here and back in India - most of them are like that.
This doesn’t mean they don’t treat Indian women like that - they treat Indian and all other race women like that, but there is a higher chance they might marry an Indian woman as opposed to them marrying a Caucasian woman. I see even the most progressive Indian men once-in-while fall victim to the “I am superioir syndrome” without even realizing it. This happens because they have been raised in an atmosphere not conducive to emotional and physical openness. They come with their moms’ apron strings firmly tied around their waists, so that even if their independent minds want something, they are more than willing to let go of it to make their families happy and proud.
Posted by: shanti at August 2, 2005 2:16 PM
shanti, i want to ask you something? is your husband indian? also, how are you able to stand up for yourself when indian girls are taught to be so obedient, especially when raised in india?yet, from what i see, i feel indian girls are often better convincing their folks of their love for their boyfriend, and that may be becasue women
usually are mentally more prepared to face problems and sort them out than men, from my own observations. also, i feel indian girls are better at this than guys because we look for an eternal relationship, whereas men sometimes look for sexual fun with foreign women, not commitment, which if obviosuly a premise for a break-up.
also, the indian family model also has something to do with it. indian men have their whole family backed out when they mary a foreign woman, and so they are more influenced by their family when it comes to marrying a non-indian. indian women are always thought of as the lesser sex, since we’re to be givin away to the man and his family, so we already are used to the roles as caregivers, nurterers, and just have to get used to a new culture, not a whole new family, whihc is what foreign women have to deal with when marrying with indian men. Thus, in indian with non-indian marriages, an indian woman is more independent because she’s on her own, not like with indian b