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While you people In America might be accustomed to Bush’s unilateral actions preceded by heavy media brainwashing, that is not how we work.

What unilateral action ? He is the elected President of United States. So the same way you listen to the elected Govt. of India, people here listen to the elected President of US.

Heavy Media Brainwashing ? This is a free country. People can have their opinions. What is wrong in that ?

Beats me, JK :huh:

Yeah, I left a huge rant after Gaurav comments - he had a point to make, and it was actually a good one. Then he ruined it by throwing in a typically mindless anti-American insult. Yeah, those of us who don’t agree with everything the ‘non-aligned all stars’ support are automatically brainwashed. We couldn’t possibly have come to a different conclusion all on our own.

And as for his 15% tip remark - and I know I’m repeating my previous comment - well I’d rather tip a waiter than a politician. I’ve heard stories from friends and relatives about the huge amount of bribes are taken by the sainted politicians of Indian parliamentary democracy. Maybe we could get McDonalds to bribe the Indian gov - that’d get rid of the ban, pronto.:mad:

Madhu, I guess it makes some people feel better about themselves when they imagine their opponents (in views) total brainless fools - it rids you of the responsibility to come up with a good rebuttal to the others’ argument. ;)

Insecurity is the word, Shanti! Should I add, “Sour Grapes?”

There is a large tribe—I’m sure you’re aware of it—in India that looks upon people who have migrated to the US (and elsewhere) as deserters/unpatriotic/betrayers. However, these selfsame people will jump at the first opportunity to migrate! This is not to generalize, but that’s the trend I’ve seen in my encounters with members of this tribe.

They somehow feel that NRIs/Indians settled abroad should be treated with contempt. They judge that the NRIs do not have any right to speak on any issue pertaining to India because they’re no longer living in India. To me it is both amusing and insidious at the same time. I wonder often whether this mindset is restricted to Indians only or is it prevalent in other countries, too?

Maybe we all can begin by taking a leaf out of the books of say, Israelis?

Thanks again for stimulating my thoughts on the cow issue.

Sandeep

I think Gaurav put his foot in his mouth last time. But overall his ideas are quite pro-freedom and anti-authoritarianism.

I’d suggest you close the issue. Your rant has made it’s point!

I quite agree with Yazad that this issue needs to be closed rather than unecessarily blown out of proportions. Gaurav’s logical arguments about the cow-slaughter issue have been obscured by petty issues.

I whole-heartedly agree that there is a definite line of thinking prevalent in India that looks upon Indians migrated to foreign lands (not just America, mind you!) as being some sort of traitors… people who have sold their souls!! But then, isn’t their a tendency on the part of many NRIs to look at India’s problems and deficiences through their adopted country’s angle?? I mean, I’ve seen Indians who start dissing everything that is Indian the moment they set foot on foreign soil (I am assiduously avoiding specific references to America!).

It is easy to start generalizing both kinds of phenomena. But that’s not going to help, is it?!

Ok, I generally make attempts to end my arguments with a joke. The “15% tip” thing was an attempt at one such joke. Clearly it fell flat.

Madhu, are you saying that not a single politician takes bribes in the United States? Is it just because our politicians take bribes with paan-stained hands wearing a dhoti that it makes it ‘uncool’? And your politicians do so with manicured hands wearing Armani suits? I never called Indian politicians sainted. Morally speaking politicians in both countries are crooks. It is just that the American system is “comparitively” more efficient when it comes to checking bribery in politics. So Madhu, if you will wait a moment, I will get you a horse which happens to be very high.

My point is that while everything there is rationalised under the “free press” and “elected government”, why can’t you bear the elected government of India doing things the same way?

For the record, if I were an MP in the Lok Sabha, I would oppose the bill. It seems to me utterly regressive, not to mention “stupid”.

My beef with you people is that you will not shirk from calling anything by the Indian government “stupid” just because it is not in line with your belief system. However you will not understand that someone else with a different belief system will find actions by the American government stupid too. No, you will go all hammer and tongs at him.

A little objectivity people.

Errr, Shanti, speaking of good rebuttal points, you people very patriotically chose to respond to only the couple of lines I wrote about Bush. There was a lot of stuff there which no one has chosen to respond to. So lemme point them out to you again.

Firstly the difference between “protecting the cow” and “eating beef”. I stated this in rebuttal of the points saying that no scripture bans eating beef. So if cow protection has the sanction of scriptures, would it change things in your mind?

Secondly, in most of the states of India, there already IS a cow ban. But still, you get beef in these states, that too very cheap. So even if the law is made, Christians, Muslims, Parsis, and gourmet(!!) Hindus like me will continue to be able to eat beef.

The move to introduce the bill is a political one. Agreed. But isn’t such forceful opposition to it also a political move especially since it does not make any difference to anyone? Think about it.

Sandeep, “sour grapes”????:huh: Do you know anything about me, on the basis of which you say that I suffer from sour grapes?

I do not view Indians abroad as traitors or anything. In fact they present refreshing views on the issue.

However I admit that in my opinion second-generation Americans are more American than indian (and rightly so, after all USA spent money on them). So their views on all issues Indian, somehow lack the understanding and perspective that first hand experience of living in India provides you with.

So I think their views are more keeping in mind the interests of America than the interests of India, or applying an American set of beliefs and norms here.

For instance, yesterday 40 people died in a fire in the Frontier Mail. In response to this news on a website, an Indian in America had posted “I really wonder why people in India continue to travel by train when there is air travel”.

You see, the guy is not really wrong. He just doesn’t know about conditions here.

Note - I don’t know if you people are 2nd generation Indians or have spent your childhood in India.

FYI, I spent 22 years of my life in India before recently moving to the US - I guess that somehow imbues my arguments with a lot more weight than before :huh: See, that is the thing about generalizations - just because someone lives now in the US, that doesn’t make their points any less valid, just because we called ONE Indian law stupid. In case you don’t know, we are the ones fighting India’s battles here abroad - we are the ones presenting a good face of India to other countries. We criticize India to other Indians - when someone else criticizes India, we fire back a lot harder than you can imagine. Just because you don’t really know any NRIs, stop dissing them to make points.:nice:

Sameer, we are dissing India in some points doesn’t mean this is somehow a sudden phenomenon - we were politically interested back in India too - we dissed the policies back in India too - it is just that now even we are looked at differently because we are not in India anymore. We still have family ties with the country - we can’t completely forget it, right? :)

Shanti, you are right! As NRI’s, we have every right to make comments. And you are absolutely right that we are the faces of India abroad.

Many American’s/Europeans used to ask me: “Do you still have tigers roaming around in Indian streets”,

Now it’s like: “You guys are the master’s of computer science”. This is an extremely positive development!

Dude Gaurav, I am pretty much new to this blog. But I see that most people here agree with your main point on cow slaughter. Let’s end it here … unless Shanti wants to start another blog on “NRI vs RI attitudes” ???

L.

L.

Well… I never said “you” were dissing, Shanti. I was making a point about some people and said generalizations are easy to make but they don’t help!

My point about generalizations applies equally well to both the sides.

Yes, you are right, let’s end this rant here - and by the way Gaurav, I actually agreed with you in my original comments (so I did actually respond to your arguments).

End of ranting.:nice:

hmm, had planned to post my rant on my blog. but ok, since tis the time to bury hatchets, i will not post it. :beam:

Oh, and by the way, we tip our politicians 20% in the US, not 15, so just keep that in mind Gaurav!:beam:

By the way, now that rant season is out, do read my original comment. Then tell me what, other than the last line, vilifies, slanders and attacks American Indians? I have relatives abroad, friends abroad, and I understand too much about the economy to think that NRIs are somehow “running away” or “not making any contribution”.

The last line as I said earlier was a joke. I did not even have NRI deserters or anything in mind. I don’t think of issues in that way. To be honest, if I had not gotten into an IIM, I would probably have tried for an MS too. So I never in my wildest imagination thought that my post would be considered ‘insulting to NRIs’.

Why I mentioned Bush there? Frankly because I dont see much difference in Bush’s resolution for war on Iraq (more so now that there are no WMDs) and BJP’s bill for cow slaughter ban. both have majority support in the house. Both are supported by majority of the population. And cow slaughter ban, as I said does not affect anyone’s life really.

Basically I had in mind the way you attacked war-opponents some days back. Just like you think this is stupid, we think that was stupid.

As I said, a little objectivity.

Righto Madhu, I’ll keep that in mind the next time I ask a politician for a burger. :tongue3:

Madhu, I thought I was tipping atleast 36% every two weeks :tongue3:

Gaurav,
You do make a point about majority support that the Govt enjoys in Parliment. But as someone who has participated(only in the capacity of a voter and dutiful citizen :-)) in the last Lok Sabha and Vidhan Sabha elections, I want to know why the govt is wasting public money and time on “cow slaughter” instead of working on plans to transfer surplus food grain from Punjab to Orissa. When will the Feasibility study of linking rivers be complete and what is the govt of Karnataka going to do about the pollution in Bangalore that not only gave me and a whole lot of other adults, toddlers and children allergies, bronchitis and asthma. And cow slaughter is the most pressing issue to be solved ??

While I am not a NRI basher (How can I if I am one? :-)) I am not too sure of the sour grapes theory. I think thats plain arrogant and (sorry for saying this) sounds too much like the attitude of Joe Sixpack.

Why can’t Indians (resident types, including the Singaporeans ;-)) be assertive and take pot-shots at NRIs? I think of this phenomena (I am not including lunatics like Prafool in this) more of a backlash than as systematic NRI hating. Lets post rebuttals (a good ones at that) and not brand people as plain NRI haters.

I agree, Ashwini. Precisely the reason I find the whole issue stupid as well.

I stumbled on this from Google and wanted to say thanks for posting

Thanks, Devon :)