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Don’t you think the Indians also pay taxes and that gives them the right to ask for certain services in return ? I am sure you’ve heard the phrase that inspired an entire revolution and changed the course of history - “No taxation without representation.”

The Indians of SA feel that the loss of their language is the first step towards complete assimilation (and yes, annihilation). They are hanging on to their culture as hard as they can, just as any other minority anywhere else does.

Maybe you have missed the trends in current South African society, but it is towards a homogenization at the expense of individual liberty. After all the South African Congress is a Socialist/Communist leaning party.

There have been repeated attacks, physical and others, on people of Indian descent to make them feel like they don’t belong if they don’t assimilate completely. The feeling of subtle contempt that pervades African politics towards Indians is just rearing it’s head in South Africa after making its rounds of Uganda, Zimbabwe, Kenya and other countries.

The report says “cull out languages lacking sufficient enrollment” and who is to determine how much is sufficient ? The same bureaucrats who have been appointed by the National Socialist government of Thabo Mbeki.

Sri,

I agree there should be representation with taxation, but when there isn’t a critical number of people of a community, it really doesn’t amke any sense to do something just for them. That is the same thing that makes us Indians mad in India - it is called appeasing minorities.

I don’t agree assimilation is equivalent to annihilation. If these people are really so interested in hanging on to their culture, they could have stayed in India or can still teach their kids how to be Indian at home. When immigrants don’t assimilate and try to hang onto their group identities instead of national identity, there are communal problems. Individual liberties do not mean forcing the Government to teach your kids what you want - it just means you are free to pay someone extra to teach your kids your languages if you are so inclined.

As for the attacks on Indians, I completely agree it is wrong, but then maybe it is the resentment building in the locals because of our refusal to melt in with them - to them we look like we are acting superior - not a good thing.

As for sufficient enrollment, there should be some limits on the minimum numbers - it doesn’t amke sense for the Government to pay teachers to teach 10 kids in a school something, does it? I really think if the Indians in South Africa are that interested in their culture, they should do something on their own or as a group to make it happen, not force the Government to do it.

so? who cares? i am a proud indian and i believe in whatever furthers the cause of the indian race in the world. that includes us-like intervention in the politics of other countries to further our strategic and economic interests, assasinations of hostile or “seemingly hostile” leaders of targetted nations, economic arm-twisting to elicit support for a permanent seat on the security council, and other such dirty tricks that we elect these thugs into power for.

jai hind!

Hmm….

Before I begin, allow me to say, “Jai Maharashtra!”

Nationalism apart, there is a unique joy in speaking one’s mother tongue. Agreed, that if tomorrow 200 people want the Government of India to recognise Klingon as a language, I would tap my head and look away, but Klingon in India is hardly Guzrathi in South Africa.

Let them not forget that the non-violent movement for greater rights was started by a Guzrathi Indian immigrant. I am not saying that the the ZA government should provide for Guzrathi tutors in each class, nor am I saying that Guzrathi have the same place as whatever language is now dominant there, all I am saying is that the ZA government should recognise the study of Indian languages as education.

At least do what India has done for non-Hindi languages. Now, the Assamese government does not provide for Marathi schools, nor does it provide for Marathi teachers, but if a student wishes to take Marathi as his third language instead of Hindi, after English and Assamese, that is, he is free to do so, and as long as the teacher is someone recognised by the Assam board, and the syllabus is recognised by the Assam board, there will be no problems whatsoever.

So, I say to the ZA, fret not, if pay not you shall for our cultural upkeep, at least respect it enough to recognise our effort to do so on our own. For that is how we add colour to an already colourful society.

Jai Hind.

ps: And also what the indian pride guy said. All Indians are my brothers and sisters, they told us when we were kids. Lets make that racial. Race has great power. Look at the poor Jews trying to prove themselves as a race…heehee

Its also pretty ridiculous considering the number of indians in south africa who actually speak their native language. Out of a population of 42 mil. there are around a million indians.

I get to meet a lot of indians from SA (the variety who were born there, and have never been to india; not the indian-bred expat variety); most of the ones I have met are divorced from any direct cultural connection to India — for instance; a lot of em have hindu sounding names but actually go to church, and speak english with an afrikaner/brit accent, and nobody I have met spoke any indian language.

There seems to be a divide among Indians in SA on cultural/political lines — the ones who have retained a large part of their native identity and those who have adopted the ways of the white man. In very crude terms its like the post apartheid ANC and National party divide among indians.

Based on that assumption you divide the population of a million — you could probably get something like 300,000 people who can read & write indian languages and the rest who don’t really give a damn.

Clearly, the government did some math like this and decided it was’nt worth continuing with these languages…. (I don’t think there is any real conspiracy to eliminate these languages, just makes $$$$,uh..Rand sense).

—-Ashok

Exactly my point, Ashok! Thanks for chiming in.

*coming in late - AGAIN ;) *

a lil background:
Im first generation american
Parents are 4th and 5th generation South African Indian

My parents speak very little of their mother tongue to my brother and I (my dad speaks hindi, my mom - tamil).

Shanti says:
I don’t agree assimilation is equivalent to annihilation. If these people are really so interested in hanging on to their culture, they could have stayed in India or can still teach their kids how to be Indian at home.

My great great whatever grandparents were actually FORCED to come to South Africa, it’s not something they chose willingly. So to say that they should have ‘stayed’ in India is something that wasn’t a choice, albeit in my relatives case.

Regarding, “being taught how to be Indian at home” - how can one teach that while being immersed in another culture? Will you teach your children to “be Indian at home”? How can you impart the intracacies of Indian culture to your children while living in the United States? These are the same issues that my relatives faced in raising children outside of their ‘motherland’.

To answer the question, “Should the South African Government fund the teaching of Indian Languages in schools?”.

Why not? South African schools teach Afrikaans, English and Zulu (depending on the region you’re in). Just as we have electives here to learn Spanish, French, German or Japanese - shouldn’t Indian children have the CHOICE to choose which “foreign” language they learn? Why SHOULDN’T the government pay for it?

Having attended schools in South Africa for a summer, for “the experience (as my parents put it) any monies allocated to improve ANY part of the system would be appreciated.

Schools are in horrendous conditions (or were when I was 14 - 9 years ago) and the levels of education is atrocious in the Indian Schools I attended. Maybe if I had visited a school in a more affluent section of Durban (ie the white areas) the levels of education would have been higher.

But I suppose I’m taking this debate somewhere it was never intended to go.


Don’t you think the Indians also pay taxes and that gives them the right to ask for certain services in return ? I am sure you’ve heard the phrase that inspired an entire revolution and changed the course of history - “No taxation without representation.”
- well said

My secon and third grade Religion classes are doing missionary projects. They need to learn to say certain things in the language of the country that they chose. Can you suggest a web site or another source of information for the students who have chosen India?

Hindi is the most beautiful language in the world…don’t hate on us africans and whites. our culture is # 1 and always will be, jai hind

this site is very good. it really helped me with my work. BUT THERE R NO PICS. or no actual indian writin :angry::blush::evil::mad::tongue3: