This character is from the same school of thought as Praful Bidwai. Is he a JNU-groupie?

We Indians have a whole slew of such outdated relics running around, who are masters of hyperbolic, illogical, conspiracy theories

Forget logic or common sense

True, Prashant - I am not arguing America is an angel or anything, but I respect people who actually bother to backup claims with facts and reasoning instead of throw around baseless allegations and hope one sticks.

Yiu are right in that he seems to be a compatriot of Bidwai and the likes of him.

I am not arguing America is an angel or anything

Why not? It is mighty angelic of America to go through all this trouble just to free the world of tyrants. They have made the cruel Mullah Omar, OBL and Saddam go into hiding. That is the work of an angel.:beam:

Now only if we could locate the devil who armed/trained/empowered these people in the first place.:evil:

Byline at the end of the piece:Siddhu Warrier is a university student in Chennai

Damn. I wonder why rediff was not around when I was a University student! Hey Gaurav, u still are. Rediff does require a fresh batch of sensible writers. We should all volunteer to cleanse their Augean stables of the all the Bidwai.

Btw, I hereby coin a new term

Bidwai: (n) piece of crap masquerading for public policy debate.

Never bother with this one guys. A quick Google check revels that this kid is a sophomore or junior at most. I am sure he’ll be loved by the mainstream media shortly. I’ve lost my trust (whatever miniscule remains) in today’s media!

L.

Yazad, it is true this column was a Bidwai ;)

L, but that is why we shopuld strive to point out the flaws in big media and lay them bare, so they know they cannot get away with the distribution of crap anymore.

This Warrier guy ends his article with : “if the US could end Hitler’s Fortress Europe…one shudders to think what they could do today.” Yes, how awful. Stopping Hitler. What a terrible thing for the US to do.

Because you know, only devils who arm/train/empower people to do bad things are responsible for their actions….not the people themselves :smartass:

Two birds at one shot, Madhu? ;)

I agree, the columnist seemed absolutely confused about what to make of things and kept listing the good stuff US did as if it were somehow bad :huh:

Madhu,

Dunno if you read my blog, so copy pasting.

“Oceania is at war with Eastasia. Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia. Eurasia has always been our ally.”

“Oceania is at war with Eurasia. Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia. Eastasia has always been our ally.”

……from George Orwell’s 1984. Now if it became this -

America is at war with Russia. America has always been at war with Russia. Afghanistan/Iraq has always been our ally.

America is at war with Afghanistan/Iraq. America has always been at war with Afghanistan/Iraq. Russia has always been our ally.

Like the line from 1984 goes,

“He who controls the present, controls the past. He who controls the past, controls the future.”

And Madhu, no one said only people who arm/train/empower are responsible……but they can’t be absolved of their role in creating the mess either.

Gaurav

Yeah, I’ve read your blog. I like the way you write (although I think it’s fair to say we don’t exist on the same end of the ideological spectrum) :nice:

Oh, and I don’t think anyone should be absolved…but I think it’s funny, for example, that the US gets the blame for turning Afghanistan into a mess while the former Soviet Union, Pakistan, Iran is hardly mentioned at all.

Well Madhu, atleast the US supported Saddam before he invaded Kuwait - what about IK Gujral “bhai-bhaing” with Saddam during the Gulf War? We actually have a statue of Stalin in Mumbai - I mean, he killed what - just a few million people!

There are some issues in which India is not a player….or at least not in the focus of discussion. However some people manage to somehow get India into the picture and then lambast it. So far I thought only Prafool Bidwai, De-loopy D’souza and their ilk specialised in this.

Sad to see, there are non-leftists as well who indulge in the same “let’s-bash-india-to-rationalise-our-evils” ploy.

I have never been one of the “Blame America for everything” gang. The other countries you mentioned are equally at fault.

However I made that comment because I have seen that on this blog, you people mention faults, blunders and wrongs of all countries but America. If somehow the name of America does come in, related to universally accepted blunders, you follow the classical BalThackeray-ian approach of “Hey those other guys committed blunders too”…cleverly side stepping the issue that your country has done some pretty terrible things itself.

Nations do many things in their self-interest, at least in the short-term. The case of US arming OBL against the Soviets was such a case. They could’nt have predicted that OBL will turn hostile and hit back. India, too has armed forces in (the then) east-Pak during the refugee crisis. Now, we see a high anti-India activism there. Iguess we can make some progress if we analyze each situation objectively and try to learn from them.

L.

You are completely wrong there, Gaurav - the only reason we are defending America is because everyone else is criticizing her - Everyone all over the world seems to be obsessed with criticizing America and there is no dearth of people talking trash about the US, whether justified or not. That is one of the main reasons why there is no discussion possible between the two groups. When the other group never misses a chance to slip in a snide remark whether it is in context or not (see your first comment above), how do you expect a rational discussion and for people to concede you have a point?

You are pushing people into an ideological corner when you come out attacking. There is no point asking us to criticize America, when you are doing enough of that without our help. As for dragging India into that, why not? You never criticize India, so we will do it for you. It isn’t that we loooove US or we hate India - it is just that when you are so quick to point out the warts of our adopted country, we have to show you your country and my country are not above blame either.

Emm … a “light blogging” day for Shanti :confused:

L.

I believe that’s the logical fallacy of ad hominem tu coque.

Shanti, Gaurav, you are both guilty of the fallacy that Madhu’s posted above. It helps to look without preconceived notions. Defend what’s right, not because it’s being globally criticised. If the trash thrown on the US is justified, don’t blindly defend it. (Same goes for India / any other nation / group)

L, I think bin Laden is the classic case of a Frankenstein’s monster. Yes, it’s been done before many times (Bhindranwale in Punjab). But we know through bitter experience that the monster turns against the master. It’s happened time and again. With all this knowledge, to create more such monsters is either being naive or deluded.

“As for dragging India into that, why not? You never criticize India, so we will do it for you.”

..hmm, you obviously never read my blog.

“the only reason we are defending America is because everyone else is criticizing her”

pardon me… but that is quite a lame reason for defending America!

No it isn’t, Sameer - it is natural for people who like America in general to get defensive in an atmosphere like now, when people bash America for anything and everything.

I think there is a difference between “America” and “the American govt” — most of the time the criticism is directed towards the faulty policies of the latter. I hold the ideals of America (life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness) in high regard, I hold the current and previous govts of the US in very low regard.

I think we need a little bit of clarity on what we’re fighting for here.

I agree with you, Yaz - to understand my frustration, see what the initial post was about. That somehow completely degenerated into a discussion about defending America - I wasn’t doing that in my original post and I do concede initially that yeah, it isn’t like all American policies are that great.

Oh well, I am just going to leave it at that. I really didn’t want to make a big deal about this, but it is surely getting out of hand.

This comes about a year late, but I think I met this guy at the Bournvita Quiz seven years ago. It’s amazing what google throws up.

That is very interesting, Aadisht!